Temperature Gauge on low side
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Temperature Gauge on low side
Anyone have any ideas on why my temperature gauge needle is running on the low / cools side? I've got plenty of heat, the reservior is at the proper level (but coolant is dirty looking) the radiator has sufficient fluid and looks clean!?
Should I flush the entire system, replace thermostat, or sensor or hope it goes any? I JUST started.
HELLLLPPPP!
Should I flush the entire system, replace thermostat, or sensor or hope it goes any? I JUST started.
HELLLLPPPP!
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
Temperature Gauge on low side
YES! Replace coolant and thermostat.
A clue is the "dirty" coolant which indicates that it has been some time since the system was serviced. The thermostat may not be operating anymore.
Get a RobertShaw thermostat if possible, they are the best. Use the thermostat temp specified for your vehicle. Any other temp will make it hard for the engine management controls to operate properly. You can check the operation of your thermostat by using a thermometer placed against the thermostat housing and insulated from the air with a rag and watching the flow of coolant in the radiator or feeling the top hose.
Flush the system if any deposits are visible or just for good measure. The "dirt" is likely rust particles from corrosion inside your engine. Good quality coolant mixes have corrosion inhibitors just like oil. With time the corrosion inhibitors are depleted. Use a name brand coolant with a 50/50 mix. Higher concentrations will not cool (transfer heat) as well. While your coolant must be replaced now be aware that there are additive package restoring fluids available for some of the major coolant brands. These additive packages can extend the life of your engine coolant for many years if used annually. Additive packages among different coolant brands may not be compatible, just like oils.
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A clue is the "dirty" coolant which indicates that it has been some time since the system was serviced. The thermostat may not be operating anymore.
Get a RobertShaw thermostat if possible, they are the best. Use the thermostat temp specified for your vehicle. Any other temp will make it hard for the engine management controls to operate properly. You can check the operation of your thermostat by using a thermometer placed against the thermostat housing and insulated from the air with a rag and watching the flow of coolant in the radiator or feeling the top hose.
Flush the system if any deposits are visible or just for good measure. The "dirt" is likely rust particles from corrosion inside your engine. Good quality coolant mixes have corrosion inhibitors just like oil. With time the corrosion inhibitors are depleted. Use a name brand coolant with a 50/50 mix. Higher concentrations will not cool (transfer heat) as well. While your coolant must be replaced now be aware that there are additive package restoring fluids available for some of the major coolant brands. These additive packages can extend the life of your engine coolant for many years if used annually. Additive packages among different coolant brands may not be compatible, just like oils.
Thanks for using FTE!
[font color=red]As a Moderator I do not "Subscribe" to most topics,
please send email/pm if you need a reply -Thanks![/font]
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Temperature Gauge on low side
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-Nov-02 AT 09:38 AM (EST)]>Anyone have any ideas on why my temperature gauge needle is
>running on the low / cools side? I've got plenty of heat,
>the reservior is at the proper level (but coolant is dirty
>looking) the radiator has sufficient fluid and looks clean!?
>
I'm confused - 1st you said the "coolant is dirty looking" (viewing through the reservoir), and then further on you mention it ("fluid") "looks clean" - viewing down into radiator filler neck\opening (right ?)
Several things - 1. How low is the gauge reading ? 2. Has it always read that low or is it a sudden drop (change) ? 3. When was the antifreeze\coolant last flushed and\or replaced - or are you and this vehicle "new" to each other - if so, maybe you could "dig-up" records (glove box, former owner, or if you know or can find out where - shop\garage\dealer) the vehicle was taken care of ? 4. Where do you live - climate?
Based on you comment that the "coolant is dirty looking" in the reservoir - it COULD be that the RESERVOIR is just dirty (residue) and you MIGHT only need to remove and clean it (and of course replace to "Min" or "Low" mark w\ 50\50 coolant-antifreeze\water [distilled water is best] mix) - depending on answers to previous questions.
In contradiction to the first reply (and a reply to another post some time ago), it has long been my "understanding" - though I certainly could have it wrong - that higher concentrations of antifreeze-coolant lower the freeze-point AND raise the boil-point - I thought this is why it is called "antifreeze" AND "coolant" - ALL jugs of the stuff refer to 50% MIN mix and\or 70% MAX mix to help protect against extremes (though the overwhelming vast majority of us will never see the -84F. degree temp, on the other end of the scale, a raising of the boil-point to +276 degrees (F.) is personally, for me, not protection enough - but it is sufficeint and is probably one hell of an engineering feat to have been accomplished.
Last but not least - I would MUCH prefer my temps to be on the low or cool side as opposed to the other way (running HOT!) - though it is vital that one reaches a certain temp in order for the computer-controls to operate their various functions - but you didn't make mention of any other problems - you said you have "plenty of heat", if you do have excessive residue (dirt -scum) in the reservior and are having no other problems, sounds like it COULD be a sensor or perhaps the guage is in the process of going bad - but I'd very much like to hear from others on the freeze-boil-points/concentrations and H2O mixes - and how many folks use DISTILLED ? And isn't it impossible (if not virtually or "next" to impossible) to get a 50/50 mix (?) - I err on the high side in this instance as I believe I'd much rather have 70 or even 75% than 49% or less . . . Glenn
>running on the low / cools side? I've got plenty of heat,
>the reservior is at the proper level (but coolant is dirty
>looking) the radiator has sufficient fluid and looks clean!?
>
I'm confused - 1st you said the "coolant is dirty looking" (viewing through the reservoir), and then further on you mention it ("fluid") "looks clean" - viewing down into radiator filler neck\opening (right ?)
Several things - 1. How low is the gauge reading ? 2. Has it always read that low or is it a sudden drop (change) ? 3. When was the antifreeze\coolant last flushed and\or replaced - or are you and this vehicle "new" to each other - if so, maybe you could "dig-up" records (glove box, former owner, or if you know or can find out where - shop\garage\dealer) the vehicle was taken care of ? 4. Where do you live - climate?
Based on you comment that the "coolant is dirty looking" in the reservoir - it COULD be that the RESERVOIR is just dirty (residue) and you MIGHT only need to remove and clean it (and of course replace to "Min" or "Low" mark w\ 50\50 coolant-antifreeze\water [distilled water is best] mix) - depending on answers to previous questions.
In contradiction to the first reply (and a reply to another post some time ago), it has long been my "understanding" - though I certainly could have it wrong - that higher concentrations of antifreeze-coolant lower the freeze-point AND raise the boil-point - I thought this is why it is called "antifreeze" AND "coolant" - ALL jugs of the stuff refer to 50% MIN mix and\or 70% MAX mix to help protect against extremes (though the overwhelming vast majority of us will never see the -84F. degree temp, on the other end of the scale, a raising of the boil-point to +276 degrees (F.) is personally, for me, not protection enough - but it is sufficeint and is probably one hell of an engineering feat to have been accomplished.
Last but not least - I would MUCH prefer my temps to be on the low or cool side as opposed to the other way (running HOT!) - though it is vital that one reaches a certain temp in order for the computer-controls to operate their various functions - but you didn't make mention of any other problems - you said you have "plenty of heat", if you do have excessive residue (dirt -scum) in the reservior and are having no other problems, sounds like it COULD be a sensor or perhaps the guage is in the process of going bad - but I'd very much like to hear from others on the freeze-boil-points/concentrations and H2O mixes - and how many folks use DISTILLED ? And isn't it impossible (if not virtually or "next" to impossible) to get a 50/50 mix (?) - I err on the high side in this instance as I believe I'd much rather have 70 or even 75% than 49% or less . . . Glenn
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
Temperature Gauge on low side
>I'm confused - 1st you said the "coolant is dirty looking"
>(viewing through the reservoir), and then further on you
>mention it ("fluid") "looks clean" - viewing down into
>radiator filler neck\opening (right ?)
>Based on you comment that the "coolant is dirty looking" in
>the reservoir - it COULD be that the RESERVOIR is just dirty
>(residue) and you MIGHT only need to remove and clean it
>(and of course replace to "Min" or "Low" mark w\ 50\50
>coolant-antifreeze\water [distilled water is best] mix) -
>depending on answers to previous questions.
Good point, the coolant reservoirs do seem to get filthy.
>In contradiction to the first reply (and a reply to another
>post some time ago), it has long been my "understanding" -
>though I certainly could have it wrong - that higher
>concentrations of antifreeze-coolant lower the freeze-point
>AND raise the boil-point - I thought this is why it is
>called "antifreeze" AND "coolant" - ALL jugs of the stuff
>refer to 50% MIN mix and\or 70% MAX mix to help protect
>against extremes (though the overwhelming vast majority of
>us will never see the -84F. degree temp, on the other end of
>the scale, a raising of the boil-point to +276 degrees (F.)
>is personally, for me, not protection enough - but it is
>sufficeint and is probably one hell of an engineering feat
>to have been accomplished.
Not much of an engineering feat, just basic chemistry.
Yes, -the higher the concentration of Ethylene Glycol (up to ~70%) raises the boiling point, and lowers the freezing point of the mixture.
There IS only one problem tho... Ethylene Glycol and mixtures do not carry heat as well as water. This gives us a "balancing act" to provide freeze/boilover protection while moving the heat out of the engine. A 50/50 mix or close thereto balances that protection here in the lower 48 with our climate and engine cooling needs.
Your greatest boilover protection lies in the ability of your cooling system to transfer heat from the engine to the air. Water does this better than a mix but we must compromise. In engineering everything is a compromise...
>Last but not least - I would MUCH prefer my temps to be on
>the low or cool side as opposed to the other way (running
>HOT!) - though it is vital that one reaches a certain temp
>in order for the computer-controls to operate their various
>functions - but you didn't make mention of any other
>problems -
It is actually better to run an engine at the highest temperature that you can without destroying the materials that make it. Engines used to run at 180F but they have been increasing the operating temperature over the years as designs, materials, and controls improved.
>you said you have "plenty of heat", if you do
>have excessive residue (dirt -scum) in the reservior and are
>having no other problems, sounds like it COULD be a sensor
>or perhaps the guage is in the process of going bad -
That is why you should test and possibly replace the thermostat.
>but
>I'd very much like to hear from others on the
>freeze-boil-points/concentrations and H2O mixes - and how
>many folks use DISTILLED ?
There are enough materials in your cooling system that will dissolve in the water to make the water "hard" quickly. Don't worry about using distilled water in an automotive cooling syatem. We used to use distilled water to fill batteries because you had a delicate chemical balance to maintain.
>And isn't it impossible (if not
>virtually or "next" to impossible) to get a 50/50 mix (?)
It is impossible to get anything exact (physics) and the mix will change over time due to evaporation. the 50/50 mix is a good reference target to aim for. Probably anything between 40-60% is good enough. It is tough to get an engine to freeze that is used daily. It takes many hours at the lower limit of your freeze protection to cool the entire engine block to that temperature. It is when an engine sits for days at very cold temperatures that can cause a freeze. Even when an engine does freeze, the ethylene glycol water mix forms a slurry that has some odd properties:-) When you put that water bottle in the freezer you wish it would freeze instantaneously, but you notice it can take many hours depending on airflow around it to conduct the heat away. It also takes a lot of heat transfer to make the phase change (liquid-solid) happen. The rate at which an engine cools also depends much on the same types of conditions in your freezer, -airflow/wind :-)
>I err on the high side in this instance as I believe I'd
>much rather have 70 or even 75% than 49% or less . . . Glenn
Unfortunately you are wasting money and worrying about things too much. Life is too short to sweat such things as the difference in a 49% or 50% mixture. Increasing your mix up to 70-75% is asking for trouble of a different sort, internal hot spots, and component failures.
Aim for a 50/50 mix and as long as the coolant floats enough "*****" in the tester to get you thru the winter you are OK. Even then you can start the engine and let it idle for a while to keep it from freezing on a really cold night if you are worried and marginal on freeze protection.
Use your leftover pure antifreeze to mix with water for a 50/50 makeup mix to use during the year. I also keep used filtered coolant that tests ~50/50 for makeup.
Flush all of your waste coolant down the toilet. The little bacteria in the sewer plant just love the stuff!
Thanks for using FTE!
[font color=red]As a Moderator I do not "Subscribe" to most topics,
please send email/pm if you need a reply -Thanks![/font]
-
>(viewing through the reservoir), and then further on you
>mention it ("fluid") "looks clean" - viewing down into
>radiator filler neck\opening (right ?)
>Based on you comment that the "coolant is dirty looking" in
>the reservoir - it COULD be that the RESERVOIR is just dirty
>(residue) and you MIGHT only need to remove and clean it
>(and of course replace to "Min" or "Low" mark w\ 50\50
>coolant-antifreeze\water [distilled water is best] mix) -
>depending on answers to previous questions.
Good point, the coolant reservoirs do seem to get filthy.
>In contradiction to the first reply (and a reply to another
>post some time ago), it has long been my "understanding" -
>though I certainly could have it wrong - that higher
>concentrations of antifreeze-coolant lower the freeze-point
>AND raise the boil-point - I thought this is why it is
>called "antifreeze" AND "coolant" - ALL jugs of the stuff
>refer to 50% MIN mix and\or 70% MAX mix to help protect
>against extremes (though the overwhelming vast majority of
>us will never see the -84F. degree temp, on the other end of
>the scale, a raising of the boil-point to +276 degrees (F.)
>is personally, for me, not protection enough - but it is
>sufficeint and is probably one hell of an engineering feat
>to have been accomplished.
Not much of an engineering feat, just basic chemistry.
Yes, -the higher the concentration of Ethylene Glycol (up to ~70%) raises the boiling point, and lowers the freezing point of the mixture.
There IS only one problem tho... Ethylene Glycol and mixtures do not carry heat as well as water. This gives us a "balancing act" to provide freeze/boilover protection while moving the heat out of the engine. A 50/50 mix or close thereto balances that protection here in the lower 48 with our climate and engine cooling needs.
Your greatest boilover protection lies in the ability of your cooling system to transfer heat from the engine to the air. Water does this better than a mix but we must compromise. In engineering everything is a compromise...
>Last but not least - I would MUCH prefer my temps to be on
>the low or cool side as opposed to the other way (running
>HOT!) - though it is vital that one reaches a certain temp
>in order for the computer-controls to operate their various
>functions - but you didn't make mention of any other
>problems -
It is actually better to run an engine at the highest temperature that you can without destroying the materials that make it. Engines used to run at 180F but they have been increasing the operating temperature over the years as designs, materials, and controls improved.
>you said you have "plenty of heat", if you do
>have excessive residue (dirt -scum) in the reservior and are
>having no other problems, sounds like it COULD be a sensor
>or perhaps the guage is in the process of going bad -
That is why you should test and possibly replace the thermostat.
>but
>I'd very much like to hear from others on the
>freeze-boil-points/concentrations and H2O mixes - and how
>many folks use DISTILLED ?
There are enough materials in your cooling system that will dissolve in the water to make the water "hard" quickly. Don't worry about using distilled water in an automotive cooling syatem. We used to use distilled water to fill batteries because you had a delicate chemical balance to maintain.
>And isn't it impossible (if not
>virtually or "next" to impossible) to get a 50/50 mix (?)
It is impossible to get anything exact (physics) and the mix will change over time due to evaporation. the 50/50 mix is a good reference target to aim for. Probably anything between 40-60% is good enough. It is tough to get an engine to freeze that is used daily. It takes many hours at the lower limit of your freeze protection to cool the entire engine block to that temperature. It is when an engine sits for days at very cold temperatures that can cause a freeze. Even when an engine does freeze, the ethylene glycol water mix forms a slurry that has some odd properties:-) When you put that water bottle in the freezer you wish it would freeze instantaneously, but you notice it can take many hours depending on airflow around it to conduct the heat away. It also takes a lot of heat transfer to make the phase change (liquid-solid) happen. The rate at which an engine cools also depends much on the same types of conditions in your freezer, -airflow/wind :-)
>I err on the high side in this instance as I believe I'd
>much rather have 70 or even 75% than 49% or less . . . Glenn
Unfortunately you are wasting money and worrying about things too much. Life is too short to sweat such things as the difference in a 49% or 50% mixture. Increasing your mix up to 70-75% is asking for trouble of a different sort, internal hot spots, and component failures.
Aim for a 50/50 mix and as long as the coolant floats enough "*****" in the tester to get you thru the winter you are OK. Even then you can start the engine and let it idle for a while to keep it from freezing on a really cold night if you are worried and marginal on freeze protection.
Use your leftover pure antifreeze to mix with water for a 50/50 makeup mix to use during the year. I also keep used filtered coolant that tests ~50/50 for makeup.
Flush all of your waste coolant down the toilet. The little bacteria in the sewer plant just love the stuff!
Thanks for using FTE!
[font color=red]As a Moderator I do not "Subscribe" to most topics,
please send email/pm if you need a reply -Thanks![/font]
-
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: NJ USA
Temperature Gauge on low side
Hi Eric,
Is it really safe to flush used coolant "down the drain", so to speak? I have like a gallon or so sitting in the garage, since Strauss Auto refused to take it from me (didn't hesitate to sell me th NEW stuff, though).
BTW, little quiz: Do you know what becomes of the majority of "recycled" motor oil?
Is it really safe to flush used coolant "down the drain", so to speak? I have like a gallon or so sitting in the garage, since Strauss Auto refused to take it from me (didn't hesitate to sell me th NEW stuff, though).
BTW, little quiz: Do you know what becomes of the majority of "recycled" motor oil?
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Temperature Gauge on low side
Tires? Home heating oil? New cheap motor oil? - Don't know - hate suspense! Tell us...
Trending Topics
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: NJ USA
Temperature Gauge on low side
>Tires?
Nope.
>Home heating oil?
Ooh, that's close.
>New cheap motor oil?
That's the natural assumption -- filter out the crud and use it again, right?
>Don't know - hate suspense! Tell us...
Easy there, big fella. Most recycled oil is sold to industry to be used as FUEL! They BURN it! Don't know about you, but that surprised the heck out of me.
Nope.
>Home heating oil?
Ooh, that's close.
>New cheap motor oil?
That's the natural assumption -- filter out the crud and use it again, right?
>Don't know - hate suspense! Tell us...
Easy there, big fella. Most recycled oil is sold to industry to be used as FUEL! They BURN it! Don't know about you, but that surprised the heck out of me.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Temperature Gauge on low side
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 05-Nov-02 AT 12:13 PM (EST)]>Hi Eric,
>.
>
>BTW, little quiz: Do you know what becomes of the majority
>of "recycled" motor oil?
BTW, little quiz: Do you know how many QTS. of oil it takes to make the "avg." tire? (Big fella' - - haha!)
And oh, thanks for not keeping us (ME) in suspense too long!
>.
>
>BTW, little quiz: Do you know what becomes of the majority
>of "recycled" motor oil?
BTW, little quiz: Do you know how many QTS. of oil it takes to make the "avg." tire? (Big fella' - - haha!)
And oh, thanks for not keeping us (ME) in suspense too long!
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
From: NJ USA
Temperature Gauge on low side
Ahh, the old "answer the quiz with ANOTHER quiz" trick. OK, I'll bite. Uhh, 20 quarts? No, wait -- 40 quarts. Yeah, final answer, Regis.
Don't leave me hangin' here too long now, I just hate oil question related sleepless nights!
Don't leave me hangin' here too long now, I just hate oil question related sleepless nights!
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 773
Likes: 0
From: VA/USA
Temperature Gauge on low side
>
>BTW, little quiz: Do you know how many QTS. of oil it takes
>to make the "avg." tire? (Big fella' - - haha!)
>
Well, I've never "ACTUALLY" made a tire, but . . . what I've read and\or heard a couple\few times was\is - - - approx. 7 or 7 1/2 QTS.
Hope you sleep a `lil better now!
Take care and thanks - Glenn . . .
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
Temperature Gauge on low side
I took some waste coolant down to a hazardous waste site. I found out that all they do with it is flush it down the drain. They explained that the microbes used to break down the human wastes just thrive on Ethylene Glycol which breaks down into sugar. Keep in mind that this haz mat station is inside the local sewer treatment plant, so I guess they should know:-)
I seem to remember from my chemistry class that Ethylene Glycol is made of two sugar molecules with an -OH on one to turn it into an alcohol. Let me know if any of you guys have the facts on this. It has been a long time since I sat in a chem class.
There are some people that make special oil burners for shop heaters that will burn waste oil. I ran into them at some home show a while back.
Where I live people that sell quantities of auto chemicals are required to recycle the waste. There is some quantity limit to exempt the Quick Trips, grocery stores, and 7-11's etc.
Thanks for using FTE!
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I seem to remember from my chemistry class that Ethylene Glycol is made of two sugar molecules with an -OH on one to turn it into an alcohol. Let me know if any of you guys have the facts on this. It has been a long time since I sat in a chem class.
There are some people that make special oil burners for shop heaters that will burn waste oil. I ran into them at some home show a while back.
Where I live people that sell quantities of auto chemicals are required to recycle the waste. There is some quantity limit to exempt the Quick Trips, grocery stores, and 7-11's etc.
Thanks for using FTE!
[font color=red]As a Moderator I do not "Subscribe" to most topics,
please send email/pm if you need a reply -Thanks![/font]
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