Air line layout
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From: chicopee us
I guess again this is a topic with many options. Check out the link below. It outlines many options as being acceptable.
I still think I will use copper but will probably surface mount it.
Have any of you seen a direct, unbiased comparision between copper and steel?
http://www.domnickh.co.uk/tech_Centr...getIndex=false
I still think I will use copper but will probably surface mount it.
Have any of you seen a direct, unbiased comparision between copper and steel?
http://www.domnickh.co.uk/tech_Centr...getIndex=false
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Originally Posted by tgregoire
Have any of you seen a direct, unbiased comparision between copper and steel?
Copper is cheaper and apparently easier/faster for a experienced contractor to install than steel.
The only reason he could think of for spec'ing steel over copper would be for easier installation for a home-owner as there would be no brazing.
He didn't mention anything about condensation, but we always specify air-driers between the compressor and the distribution piping, so it may be less of an issue.
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If you use copper use the correct wall thickness, not the cheapo stuff from the home box store. I like to use galvanized steel pipe to cut down on rust formation. I think code may specify black iron for gasses tho... 
Someone may know.
Someone may know.
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Air line materials for your shop.
welp I rekomend galvanized pipe. it will withold pressure and also the moister will not harm it. It may be more to install it if you dont have a threader. Copper is ok to use but I recomend type L copper pipe. Are you gonna soft solder it or use a 15% silphous high temp brazing sticks ? Soft solder is good but please make sure you are cleaning all pipe/fittgs well and use a good flux with lead free solder. I use this in my plmg bussiness all the time.
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When I buy pipe for a steel pipe project I figure out the fittings I am going to need, tees, elbows, valves, etc. I then buy enuf straight pipe to do the job and estimate the lengths involved. Then I buy extra short pieces of every size with lots of couplings. Usually I can get the job done with a minimum of couplings. I take what I don't use back to the store after I have replenished my plumbing supply drawer. That way I don't do any threading or cutting. If you don't have to be absolutely exact as to where your drops are this method works well.
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copper pipe
I put my vote in for copper. The club I belong to built a shop about 25 years ago and used galvanized iron pipe for the air lines. About 2 years ago one of the fellows painted a car and got some flakes in the paint job. The flakes turned out to be part of the galvanized coating from the inside of the pipe. At the same time we started to move over to HVLP guns and found our line sizes (1/2") were to small. The local supply house provided some info from the paint gun and paint people which pretty stongly recommended copper pipe. So that's what we installed to the paint booth.
Something to think about.
Something to think about.
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Always run a coalescing filter on a paint gun (removes water too). You can get flakes from copper as well as black iron along with other debris, but not if you filter the air b4 it goes to the paint gun. Somebody wasn't thinking in that club.
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filters
Good point
There are /were filters installed, the flakes were pretty small and the painter was fussy hence the upgrade. Maybe we could have used better filters but we were/are using what most body shops use and what has been recommended to us by the pros. I think the point is that technology changes and sometimes you can get left behind. I guess we did for awhile. The other point would be to listen to the pros especially when it comes to painting. Devilbiss puts out some excellent training material under the ITW SprayMaster Training program which spends a fair bit of time on airline layout, compressor selection, filtration as well as the usual painting material<o ="">.</o>
There are /were filters installed, the flakes were pretty small and the painter was fussy hence the upgrade. Maybe we could have used better filters but we were/are using what most body shops use and what has been recommended to us by the pros. I think the point is that technology changes and sometimes you can get left behind. I guess we did for awhile. The other point would be to listen to the pros especially when it comes to painting. Devilbiss puts out some excellent training material under the ITW SprayMaster Training program which spends a fair bit of time on airline layout, compressor selection, filtration as well as the usual painting material<o ="">.</o>
Last edited by coldspot; Oct 29, 2004 at 12:33 AM. Reason: format screwup
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Sounds like your filters were either not very good or defective. I have seen a lot of those filters installed and maintained improperly. The point is that you can get flakes and contaminants from ANY type of piping, copper is not immune to this. It probably has the smallest problem tho.
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From: chicopee us
Hey torque,
Why do you have to throw in the little slams to us?? Such as: "You came here for advice but if you don't listen why did you ask?" or "Somebody wasn't thinking in that club".
After this thread going on for several days there is no clear cut winner for the choice of steel or copper. There seem to be advantages and disadvantages to both. Seems to be a tossup. About the best thing I learned was not to run them in the walls and looking at the diagram gave me a couple of hints. This is what I was looking for when I asked the question.
Why do you have to throw in the little slams to us?? Such as: "You came here for advice but if you don't listen why did you ask?" or "Somebody wasn't thinking in that club".
After this thread going on for several days there is no clear cut winner for the choice of steel or copper. There seem to be advantages and disadvantages to both. Seems to be a tossup. About the best thing I learned was not to run them in the walls and looking at the diagram gave me a couple of hints. This is what I was looking for when I asked the question.
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we used copper in our shop, (construction business) we did not install water separators, but have simple 1/4 turn ball valves below each outlet, after running the tool for a while, just open the valve for a bit...we do have a water separator with quick connects so if we are gonna be using a tool for a long time, just plug it in before the hose, works great.
oh yeah...keeping your tools oiled is essential, no matter how much filtration you have, there will be condensation in your tools.
oh yeah...keeping your tools oiled is essential, no matter how much filtration you have, there will be condensation in your tools.
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For a clean look I used "Code Maker" metal electrical boxes. There's a "T" mounted in the center of the box, with the bottom off the T going into the wall, the air comes into the bottom of the T, there is a small gauge, at the top of the box, off one end of the T. Heading towards the bottom of the box there is a ball valve and quick connect nipple off the other end of the T. The quick connect nipple sticks out of the box cover when it is closed thru the slot designed for the extension cord. I used 1/2" PEX pipe and fittings, but that's worth a whole another thread 
. I just blow the moisture out before hooking a tool up. Also pipe insulation is cheap, but I didn't do this since PEX won't burst if water freezes in it. If you can budget it in the best thing is a ceiling mounted reel.
. I just blow the moisture out before hooking a tool up. Also pipe insulation is cheap, but I didn't do this since PEX won't burst if water freezes in it. If you can budget it in the best thing is a ceiling mounted reel.
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Well
I hardly know where to start so I guess the first question is>> Is there any easy way of posting some files to this forum?
I would agree that for general shop use galvanized or copper is probably ok. For painting the experts say copper is the way to go. Files are available since there seems to be some skeptism of my clubs abilities. For the record we turn out some pretty decent work and have some journeymen auto body types in the group to ensure so. We turn out 3 to 4 paint jobs per year that are acceptable to us. I think listening to the local experts is the way to go for most things. This thread has been useful but somewhat limited in that vein.
You can check us out at http://www.majesticscarclub.com/
None of my projects are shown on our website at this point maybe next month
Anyway time to go to bed. Got a swap meet to help out at out tomorrow
I would agree that for general shop use galvanized or copper is probably ok. For painting the experts say copper is the way to go. Files are available since there seems to be some skeptism of my clubs abilities. For the record we turn out some pretty decent work and have some journeymen auto body types in the group to ensure so. We turn out 3 to 4 paint jobs per year that are acceptable to us. I think listening to the local experts is the way to go for most things. This thread has been useful but somewhat limited in that vein.
You can check us out at http://www.majesticscarclub.com/
None of my projects are shown on our website at this point maybe next month
Anyway time to go to bed. Got a swap meet to help out at out tomorrow