Hi Everyone, I went to a swap meet this past weekend and came home with a ZF-5 speed for a 460 4x4. I was not looking for one, but stumbled on one. The seller was asking 500, but we settled on 300. The transmission is out of an 88 460 4x4. I have an 85 F250 with a T-19. Does anyone know what is involved in the conversion? Do I need a different clutch disc and pressure plate? I assume the flywheel is the same, is this correct? The throwout bearing is different, but the hydraulic clutch slave cylinder appears to be the same. Will this transmission bolt up to my transfer case, I have a Borg Warner 1345 I think? Will the crossmember line up? Are there any driveshaft length differences? Lastly, will there be any problems with the holes in the floor or interferences in the cab with the shifter? I do not seem to be able to do a search on this forum for this subject, there is no search tab, am I doing something wrong? Thanks

JWR
85 F250 HD 4x4 460 T-19 4.10

 

I know that the tranny will bolt up to your motor as long as you have a 460 as well. The transfer case will bolt up as long as the ZF came from a 4 wheel drive truck. Also i believe that the crossmember should work but someone who has done this (82F100SW has done this i believe) and there shouldn't be any interferences in the cab, you might though have to get a center removeable floorpan out of a 5- sp truck though.

 

I did the same swap you are wanting to do but with a 2wd 84 F 250 with a 460. The tranny bolted to the engine no problem my exsiting slave cylinder worked as well i did however have get a diffrent flywheel , clutch plate and presure plate your orignal tranny that you have now mine was a T19 uses a 11 inch clutch the ZF uses a 12 inch clutch all i did was take my old flywheel into napa and exchange it for one from a 88 F250 with a 460 flywheel. when i bought the ZF i got the presure plate throw out bearing and clutch with it and they only had 25,000 miles on them and were in better shape then even the 11 inch clutch that i had in there so all i had to do was get a diffrent flywheel same size just diffrent bolt pattern i also had to redrill ad move my cross member back 1 inch from its exsiting holes not a big deal and i was able to use the orignal cross member with the ZF tranny and tranny mount. i also had to slip the drive line carirng bearings back in the slots and had to use a diffrent floor pan actually the one i use was from a 86 crew cab that had a C6 automatic worked fine my orignal floor pan was not tall enough and the floor pan i got was from the guy i got my ZF from who had it in his 86 crew cab other then that its a pretty easy swap took me 2 days to do it

 

JW, I swapped a 2wd C6 for a 2wd ZF before but I haven`t swapped a 4x4 T-19 for a 4x4 ZF, though I do have it in my plans for the very near future although it will be behind one of my 6.9 Diesels. First things first, check the bellhousing bolt pattern and make absolutely sure the tranny is from a gas and not a diesel. Also, before you start the swap, you will need to measure from the face of the bellhousing on your T-19 to the centerline of the transmission mount and from the face of the T-19 bellhousing to the face of the transfer case adaptor mounting surface of the transmission. You can do this with it in the truck. Compare these measurements with the ZF. You should then be able to determine whether or not you will have to make driveline modifications or tunnel cover modifications. There will be some adjustments that can be made in the slotted tranny mount holes on your x-member but you may need to move your x-member if it is not enough. You will also have some play in your shifter holes on your floor pan cover. I doubt that you will need to make driveshaft modifications but you won`t know this for sure until you get the measurements I previously mentioned. I have installed a BW1356 that was behind a 1989 ZF behind a 1986 T-19 before with no problems that I can remember other than the `89 model having metric threads and the `86 having standard threads. As far as the x-member goes, you will need to check driveline angles when you are done with the swap or find a ZF x-member to compare yours with before the swap. If they don`t match up, you will probably need to get a ZF x-member. You can do a cross-reference on the tranny mount. If I remember correctly, the 12" pressure plate has eight mounting bolts versus the 11" having six mounting bolts, thus the reason for the different flywheel Steven talked about. I am not sure whether or not you could use the 11" flywheel/clutch/pressure plate set-up with the ZF. Might be worth checking into. Steven (F2Fifter) may have already looked into that when he did his swap. It`s been too long for me and I just can`t remember. Did you get the shifter too?

 

I did get the shifter and the 4x shifter also with the transmission. You guys are correct about the flywheel. I happen to have a flywheel from and 87 460 that has the 8 mounting holes for the pressure plate. The one on the truck now has 6 and is an 11" clutch. It appears as if the diameter of the flywheel is the same, does this mean the starters are the same or do I need one for the ZF application? I did a rough measurement under the truck and it looks as though the lengths are real close, I will take a more accurate measurement this weekend. What is the difference between the 1345 and 1356 strength wise? The truck has 165k miles and the truck has mainly been used for plowing snow and towing a car trailer the last 12 years. I have never had any trouble with the T-19 or 1345. I also searched the Ford parts book and the cover plate on the floor is different for the ZF, but I do not know what is different. It looks as if the swap is not difficult, but I want to make sure I am prepared before I take a wrench out of the toolbox.
Thanks

JWR
85 F250HD 4x4 460

 

JWR, If I remember correctly, both flywheels have the same tooth count and O.D. so your starter should work. Don`t quote me on this though. I am not sure what all is different between the two transfer cases or how they compare strengthwise. I do know that the three 1356`s I have on different trucks carry slip yokes and the two 1345`s behind my T-19`s in two of my 1986`s carry fixed yokes. When I swapped my C6 for a T-19 in another one of my 1986 trucks not too long ago, I was able to put the 1356 out from behind a 1989 ZF behind the T-19 to keep from making driveline modifications. I was able to use the C6 driveshaft etc. The hole for the shifter boot on the ZF cover is smaller than the hole for the T-19 shifter boot. The transfer case shifter hole is also different and in a different position. I can`t remember if the cover is taller or not. The transfer case shifter arrangement is different on the ZF. If I were you (and you didn`t get the transfer case and adaptor with the ZF tranny) and the lengths are pretty close on the T-19 & ZF trannies, I would see if your existing transfer case adapter will bolt to the ZF and use your existing transfer case lever with your existing transfer case adaptor and case. You will probably need to get an automatic tranny cover though and then cut your holes for the two shifters or use your T-19 cover and make an adaptor plate to cover the bigger T-19 hole for the ZF boot. If you did get the transfer case, adaptor and transfer case shifter with it, you could go ahead and use them and buy a ZF tunnel cover except then you will more than likely have to make driveshaft modifications if the transfer case has a slip yoke versus your 1345`s fixed yoke or you could bolt your transfer case behind the ZF transfer case adaptor (if it has the shifter mounting bolt in the right place for the 1345 shifter) and use your existing driveshafts. Now for the really good stuff! When all is said and done, you could sell me your T-19 and 1345 for a real good price for all of the headache I am saving you, lol. Of course, you may be getting a headache reading all of this. I know a lot of forum users are interested in the ZF vs T-19 4x4 swap. I just haven`t found the extra energy to do mine yet. I will say this. If you check everything out beforehand and have all of the right parts on hand when you begin, it will be a piece of cake. If I think of any more, I will post again. Good luck and keep us posted. Bob

 

Thanks Bob, I have done 5 conversions auto to 4 speed before, 66,67,70 Mustangs, 68 Torino, 72 F250. The one thing I have learned, Ford parts are all different for different applications. I am going to do some serious measuring this weekend and figure out exactly what I am missing before I begin. Are the 460 bellhousings for T-19's hard to come by? A friend of mine is looking for one, but I am not ready to give up mine yet. Jack

JWR

 

Depends...400/429/460 are the same....tell him to look for one of them.

Edit, same bolt pattern for bellhousing.

 

460 bellhousings for the T-19 are aluminum and setup for the hydraulic clutch. They are not the same as the 400 bellhousings.

JWR

 

Hey JWR i have a bell housing off my old T19 out of my truck that is for a 460 i will sell it if your friend is intrested i dont think ill ever use it again

 

Hey 4 sixter, I am interested. How do I send you my email address or can you send me yours
JWR