Y-block conversion question
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 785
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From: Columbus, Ohio
Y-block conversion question
Hey all -
I'm building a y-block in school for a customer. It's a 292 EBU that's been bored .030, and the mains machined to accept a forged 312 crank. Also using ECZ rods, new pistons, the crank has also been balanced. The deck has bee milled (I don't know what the compression ratio is now) and the heads reworked. The valley in front of each of the lifter bosses has been drilled and chamfered to aide in oiling the lifters and cam lobes.
Anyway, while reinstalling the pistons, each piston that was added made it harder and harder to turn the crank. I got up to 4 pistons. I talked to someone who reassembled the bottom end last year. They said they had to cut out the oil slinger and modify it, so the crank would lay in the rear main properly. I guess it was crooked. Without any pistons in, the crank turns about the same as it should w/all 8 pistons in place.
Has anyone run into this, or know what's going on? Is the prob in the rear main w/the oil slinger? Will it eventually break in (I know it would, but I mean in a good way)? This guy is going to put it in his '50 Effie.
Shane
I'm building a y-block in school for a customer. It's a 292 EBU that's been bored .030, and the mains machined to accept a forged 312 crank. Also using ECZ rods, new pistons, the crank has also been balanced. The deck has bee milled (I don't know what the compression ratio is now) and the heads reworked. The valley in front of each of the lifter bosses has been drilled and chamfered to aide in oiling the lifters and cam lobes.
Anyway, while reinstalling the pistons, each piston that was added made it harder and harder to turn the crank. I got up to 4 pistons. I talked to someone who reassembled the bottom end last year. They said they had to cut out the oil slinger and modify it, so the crank would lay in the rear main properly. I guess it was crooked. Without any pistons in, the crank turns about the same as it should w/all 8 pistons in place.
Has anyone run into this, or know what's going on? Is the prob in the rear main w/the oil slinger? Will it eventually break in (I know it would, but I mean in a good way)? This guy is going to put it in his '50 Effie.
Shane
Elder User
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 910
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From: Maryland
I think if some one else assembled the lower end and it seemed tight with out the pistions in. Maybe you should go back and check what they did some thing doesn't sound rite the crank should spin rather free with out the pistons in. It may be as simple as a little bit of dirt under a bearing. At least plastic guage the bearings and also check and make sure that none of the bearing cap didn't get reversed. This is just simple stuff maybe ask the same Q on the Y block fourm.
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
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From: Nor Cal
Keeping it real, with a twist
Sixoh and 312, I've been gathering parts for a build like this, can you refer me to any technical articles that clarify the kinds of modifications Sixoh is describing in his post? Thx. David
Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,013
Likes: 2
the first thing that happens when you get the crank done is you will find out the crank grinder does not have a wheel narrow enough to get in behind the slinger.this made my day.you have to get it turned down in a lathe and polished.some say to hell with it and get the crank man to grind the whole think off.as you know the slinger is put there to keep oil of the seal.early cranks before may 56 didnt have any.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2004
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Likes: 2
i forgot to add when you go to the short 312 rods they will not clear original 292 ford pistons.they will strike the crank.some aftermarket like federal mogul will work,thats what i used.if in doubt use 312 pistons.
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
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From: Nor Cal
So, I'll expose my ignorance
Can you clarify the benifits / merit to using the shorter 312 rods that increase the need for piston modifications. Can cylinder walls on a standard 292 be saftely bored over to 312. I know one of the benifits of staying with the 292 block is the neoprene rear seal Avail for it, not Avail for the 312. Since I'm still in the gathering stage for parts, I'd like to understand what can be done with a 292 for a mild build. I'd prefer not to have to buy parts twice. I've already had a nice Pr. of ECZ-C heads built, picked up a 3X2 manifold, mild cam and a Pr. of Ramshorn exhaust manifolds. I've got a set of 97tm carbs on order to complete the nostalgia hop-up. I understand these questions are better on the Y-Block site but since Sixoh started the thread with some current experience and I caught 312 speaking intelligently on the subject, I'd like them to school me. Thx. David
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Thread Starter
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Columbus, Ohio
Yeah, blame it on me, butthead! It's still a kool thread, wherever it is.
To answer you about the rods, you can't use the 292 rods in the 312-ready block. A 292 machined to accept a 312 crank bumps the crank up higher in the block. What I ran into was the 292 came with EBU rods which are 6.342" long, and the 312 dimensions on the bottom end require the ECZ rods @ 6.25". You've got to use 312 rods after that conversion.
I'm going to put the standard 292 back together this week before I tackle the converted 312 and get the crank out of it. I'll check the clearances and see what the oil slinger area looks like now. I'll post some pics in my gallery.
Shane "Y-block" Walp
To answer you about the rods, you can't use the 292 rods in the 312-ready block. A 292 machined to accept a 312 crank bumps the crank up higher in the block. What I ran into was the 292 came with EBU rods which are 6.342" long, and the 312 dimensions on the bottom end require the ECZ rods @ 6.25". You've got to use 312 rods after that conversion.
I'm going to put the standard 292 back together this week before I tackle the converted 312 and get the crank out of it. I'll check the clearances and see what the oil slinger area looks like now. I'll post some pics in my gallery.
Shane "Y-block" Walp
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
Likes: 1
From: Nor Cal
Rule Breaker
Yep, thanks to people like youuuuuuu! people like little ole me can stay outta trouble from the FTE stormtroopers. Will be anxious to here what you find out when you pull that tricked out 292 apart. I want mine on steroids. I just won a magazine with promise on Ebay: Popular Hot Rodding Magazine, July 1967, with a feature article on hopping up "old" Ford Y's (what, did Ford stop using them in 64?) I'll pass along a copy to you, if there's anything usefull there. Keep on Truckin, David
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 292
Likes: 1
From: Nor Cal
Everybody look, I'm being stupid again
Now I might really be stuck in my own orifice, but I thought the engine builder I was initially discussing this with, indicated he would be turning the 312 crank down to fit in the 292 Is that different than your describing in your last post Sixoh?
Posting Guru
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From: Michigan
Sixoh
Did you really want to say the 312 crank has a longer throw (not bumps the crank higher up in the block)? Just a thought.
You may want to try the Y-block forum here and/or this site members.aol.com/yblock/yblock.htm and I think there is one that is called yblocks forever
Chuck
Did you really want to say the 312 crank has a longer throw (not bumps the crank higher up in the block)? Just a thought.
You may want to try the Y-block forum here and/or this site members.aol.com/yblock/yblock.htm and I think there is one that is called yblocks forever
Chuck
Laughing Gas
Joined: Feb 2004
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any 292 can be bored to 3.8.the 312 bore.its only .o50 over and you can buy .060 over 292 pistons.you can now buy a neoprene seal for a 312.pricey.like above said you have to use the short 312 rods ecz.the best thing to do is buy 312 pistons.a lot of people dont like 312 blocks because a lot are cracked at the main bolt holes.for more info go to www.ford-y-block.com
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