Hey all -

I'm building a y-block in school for a customer. It's a 292 EBU that's been bored .030, and the mains machined to accept a forged 312 crank. Also using ECZ rods, new pistons, the crank has also been balanced. The deck has bee milled (I don't know what the compression ratio is now) and the heads reworked. The valley in front of each of the lifter bosses has been drilled and chamfered to aide in oiling the lifters and cam lobes.

Anyway, while reinstalling the pistons, each piston that was added made it harder and harder to turn the crank. I got up to 4 pistons. I talked to someone who reassembled the bottom end last year. They said they had to cut out the oil slinger and modify it, so the crank would lay in the rear main properly. I guess it was crooked. Without any pistons in, the crank turns about the same as it should w/all 8 pistons in place.

Has anyone run into this, or know what's going on? Is the prob in the rear main w/the oil slinger? Will it eventually break in (I know it would, but I mean in a good way)? This guy is going to put it in his '50 Effie.

Shane

 

i answered your question where you first put it.

 

I didn't get in on redoing the block, and that's what one of the guys mentioned that they did something to the slinger. My guess, tho', is that if it's all done right, that crank should be pretty easy to spin w/out pistons and rods. I'm going to take the crank out and check the mains and journals. Then go ahead and retorque it.

Something's gotta be wrong.

 

Hi Sixoh, i would consider these things

1. Have your block carnk saddle line reamed, to make sure it is straight. When that 292 was machine bored for that 312 crankshaft, it may not be straight

2. When it was milled on the deck, are you sure it wasn,t decked to much?


3. Are you sure the rods are straight? I have seen sloppy aftermarket parts in my time.


4. Are you sure your cylinder to piston clearance is at least .004?


5. Are you sure the right type pistons were used? As aftermarket requires different piston top designs.

6. Is the piston used to tall? I think you are going to have to reassemble and have a machine shop measure everything.

7. Also on the 312 bore/saddles shorter bolts had to be used for the rear main, many people do not know this.

8. You also heightened your stroke, it's very possible you may need a 312 lenghth piston but for a .032/ 292 cylinder bore


Don't get me wrong, but if it was me, i would never had taken that project, this could get extremely costly, main teason i wouldn't have taken that job is because of this, you stated they had the upper block deck milled, and with that 312 longer stroke, oh boy oh boy. Also make sure the cylinder bore runout from top to bottom is straight, if it was off as much as .002 on a few cylinders, that engine would not turn


Janet

 

Are the casting letter really EBU - If so, I beleive you have a 239 and your trying like heck to stuff all those 292, 312 pieces parts into it - they just don't fit.

 

That is very true! if it's EBU that's 239 material, it's a bad project!! If you can back out, now is a good time. I didn't notice where he mentioned EBU last night, but what the heck?? how could he be putting 30 over 292 pistons in a 239, that's not even possible, a 239 cannot be bored to a 292, much less 30 over, this isn't right . I think now for him, he needs to ID MIC those cylinders and see if he is using a 30 over 239 piston insyead, or OD MIC the pistons, if it's a 239, it won't work, plus if you don't get the shorter bolts for the rear main of that block you are going to crack that block!! On Y block fords when they rebored the saddles for the bigger 312 crank, it had to have shorter bolts where the back main was because, the bore out left the saddle area too close ro the bolt hole, so Ford motor company had to use a shorter bolt on the rear main because of this problem, they called for a 135lb torque and found later that the figure was wrong and suggested no more than 90lbs torque on those main bolts........ Janet

 

Okay, first Q: Did you check the piston clearance??
second Q: Did you check the end gap for the rings??
Third Q: Did you plastigage or measure the mains??
Fourth Q: Did you plastigage or measure the rods??

If this is tight turning, is the crank straight?? Has the
thrust surfaces been checked?? How about the thrust
bearing preload?? Did you whack the crank back and
forward to set the thrust bearing??

 

That's good info for me to take back to the shop. I'm going to print this out. Here's the scoop:

I'm a student at McPherson College in Kansas, in the only 4 year automotive restoration program in the country. It's supported by Jay Leno, Popular Mechanics, Hagerty, Maguiar's Auto Finishes, etc. So....in essence...I am the machine shop!

This engine is being put together for a guy out here in central Kansas, George Eaton. He's a big Y-block guy. I assumed he's got all the info needed to do the conversion. Also, the instructor is an old machinist/farmer from here in Kansas, and you KNOW they know their stuff. But, he can't oversee every little thing going on w/5 - 10 engines being rebuilt.

I inherited this project after the bottom end was reassembled. The engine being built is a C2AE 6015, not EBU. Sorry I wasn't clear. We're using a forged and balanced 312 crank w/ECZ rods. The EBU came into play, as there's a stock rebuilt 292 from last year. Someone had grabbed the ECZ rods and stuck them in there. This cause a deck height prob w/the EBU rods in the C2AE 6015. That's okay now.

I am working to finish stuffing the EBU block back together (I think I already verified its casting as a '54, which would in fact be a 239!). Once I finish it and get it put away, I'll be able to concentrate on the 292/312 street motor.

The kool thing is - I got this project! I almost wound up w/a 216 Chevy block! HA! More to come.....I'll update the pics and info as I find it in my gallery as the semester wears on....

Thanks gang, stay in touch! I need you!

 

Sixoh

Just some info. Mercury used a 256 cu in Y-block in 54 and Ford had the 239 Y-block.
I think Canada still used the flathead in 54 not sure though.

This forum dosn't even list the 256.

Chuck

 

That is correct Chuck, the 256 Yblock is indeed a mercury engine, and in Canada, they even have Mercury pickups that look like the American Ford pickup. Even though the 256 is just like the Ford Y, i guess it isn;t listed in here because it isn't a Ford, on Flathead still being used in Canada in 3
54, i'm not sure on that one, one that blew my mind is when i found out in Brazil they were using 272 Yblocks in 1967 Galaxy cars, i stumbled across one in the 80's and thought some one put it in there, and found out in Brazil they used them all the way up to 1975, that surprised me.Another suprising fact many people do not know is that in 1954 not only did they use the 239 here in America for the pickups, but had a Ford pickup that was the more expensive model that came with a 317 Lincoln Yblock.........Janet

 

FWIW the 239 can easily be bored .125 which is exactly what Ford did with the 256; they didnt spend any extra money retooling for one year wonders. This is FORD we are talking about here. They also had the EBY 256 as the standard V8 in the 56 F600 and the 272 was optional. Block castings were the same and the only way to tell without taking things apart is to hope the ID plate is still in the glovebox. You wont find that trivia on the Y Block tech site.
I have both EBU and EBV blocks on the shelf and those walls are about as thick as some of the comments Ive been reading on this forum

A favorite trick of the stock car builders of the era was to put a 292 crank in an otherwise stock 239. It got them in the class with the 265 SBC guys and on a short track and good gears the Y would eat them Chebbys up real bad.

 

Whew Sixoh! glad you found this Forum before you wrankled up all them 48-60 FTE'rs, notice some folks read both Forums regular like, and look at the bee's you scarred up outta the hive. P.S. I really do have better diction than my affectation would suggest. Jus' havin alittle fun! Long ago in an early correspondence to you, I mentioned I got back to Kansas (born in S.E. Kansas) to visit family yearly, I wanna get together and see your school next spring when I'm down. I'm willing to plan my trip around your convenience. David

 

Yes some Mercury engines were available in larger f600 units and up and so were Lincoln Yblocks as well, but as far as the origin of the engine "256", it is a Mercury division of Ford engine...Janet

 

Hey Deuced, that's kool. I just sent you an email...