I have a 2004 F250 diesel, 2wd. I bought it new in October last year. It was built in the previous months and I had waited about 2 months for it to be built and delivered.

When I bought it, it was QUIET, POWERFUL, smooth, and ran perfect except for the ocasional smoke at startup, and smoke at traffic light, and poor mileage. Then the dealer reflashed it, we lost pilot injection, mileage was still poor, and now it surges extremely bad for the first 45 min of driving everyday. It also has a lot less power, and much more turbo lag. Sometimes it just sits and doesnt move for about 3 seconds after flooring it, and then starts to move when it wants. On level roads at steady speeds of 40 mph you can hear the turbo kick in and out causing the surge. We are scheduled for arbitration/court in about a month.

I am looking for advise and links to useful information. Also I would love to hear from anyone who has already had ford buy back their truck. I would like to have it bought back so i can buy a 2005 model which is NOT being advertised with pilot injection. This way I can't complain when ford removes a selling feature.

I would like to find a site with statistics and other information concerning the number of people with problems, buybacks, etc.

PLease help guys, and believe me, i have been using the search engine here for hours and hours.

Thanks

 

Hey Bubba,

Well first off I'm sorry about your truck. I wish you had as much fun as I am still having with mine. There are several people who have been through buy back on here. The main thing they talk about is make sure you have ALL of your service documentation. I am sure someone will be along to fill in the rest. I am more of the service advice type guy. I have a couple questions for you if you don't mind. What recalls have been done to your truck? The reason I ask this is because all of your symptoms are what happens with wire chafe. There was a recall on this and that is why I am asking. Also, have you tried another dealer? The reason I ask this is because there have been several people on here in the last week alone, that have inquired as to their techs crudentials as to whether or not they actually are a diesel tech. Amazingly enough, sometimes that day, or the next, they have the problem figured out and fixed. My buddy had his 04 at his dealer for 21 days. During this period they had no idea what was wrong with it. On the 21st day he found out they had a gasser tech working on his truck. He told the dealer he was filing with the board for lost wages and expenses due to their negligence. Just after a few days after he informed the dealer, they wrote him a check for 21 days lost pay, and that month's truck payment. They knew they screwed up and they would lose BIG in a hearing. He also had his truck hauled to my dealer as it was not safe to drive. In 4 days, my dealer had the problem diagnosed and fixed. I just spoke with him a few days ago to find out how he is doing. He has since put over 4k miles on it and he says it still runs better than new. The way he found out about the tech is when I told him to look at the tech number on his invoice, and ask to see that tech's crudentials. If they refuse, then the person working on your truck is most definately not a diesel tech. The only thing you want working on your truck in this case, is a full diesel tech, NOT a diesel maintenance tech, nor a gasser tech. There have also been several people on here who after have the same problem fixed by their dealer for the 2nd or 3rd time, took it to another dealer, and again, their units now work better than when they purchased it. The dealer can very easily turn a 5 min fix into something much more difficult.

Best of Luck,
Corey

*Parts Changers*

 

thanks, I dont know about any recalls being done to this truck. But when its surging you can hear it whining in the speakers each time it surges. The whining in the speakers isn't as loud as the turbo spooling up and down, but they coincide with each other. On the topic of trying another dealership- we had a big argument about that with the "other" dealership. Since the first dealership was not even able to duplicate the problem, and refused to acknowledge the surging after we pointed it out to them during the ride along, we decided to go to another dealership. The second dealer refuses to look at our truck because one dealer already looked at it, and they stated something about how they can't look at something that is being troubleshot already. The problem is, the first dealer is NOT troubleshooting anything, they don't even want to suggest any possibilities, they arent doing anything except reflash over and over.

What we really want is for them to give us an untouched ecu with pilot injection, and the pre-october flash in it. Apparently it defies all the laws of science and technology in the year 2004 will not allow pilot injection and the OLD original flash to ever be installed- according to ford. It's our truck, not theirs, and you'd think they would not have the right to remove a selling feature of the truck...

One other thing, what I would really like is a flight recorder so we could record the surging in the morning. It's really bad, and smooths out as it warms up. then at the end of the day it does it again when you start it to come home from work. The dealer has never offered a recording device for us to use, that should have been offered when we told them about the arbitration

 

Hey Bubba,

Sounds like two horrible dealers. Obviously the first dealer is useless because they aren't even trying. The second dealer who told you they can't work on it because another dealer is working on is full of bs. That is completely false. If I was you I would report both dealers to the gm about what they have said and the case begin 'NOT" done. Since apparently they haven't done anything. If there is a third dealer around you, one that dealers primarily with trucks. It would really pay off to let them look at it. There is such a thing as a Ford truck dealership. They they only sell and repair trucks. They have many deisel techs on board at all hours. Otherwise the opinion of one more dealer would really help. Be it that it's fixed, or that it's another one saying they have no idea. As far as p.i., there has been at least one case put through the board saying ford can NOT take away P.I. to fix a problem. As this was a selling feature on these trucks, that is an illegal action know as "Bait and Switch". There is actually one member on here waiting on an engineer from ford to turn his P.I. back on. Me personally, I do sometimes miss the quiet idle, but other times it's nice to hear it. Not to mention I don't have to worry about surging since they still don't have a real fix for it. Ok, now on to your truck problems. Whining in speakers can be created by two things, one by a bad ground, which there was a recall for, which needs to be done as this will cause all sorts of problems if it not taken care of. MAKE SURE IT'S DONE!! Hope Tim or 60PSDFX4, willl be along soon, they can look up your vin to tell you if this recall has been done. This recall applies to trucks built between 12-1-02, and 3-31-03. Secondly the whine is generally created by a bad spooling on an alternator. If the whine fluxuates with the amount of throttle, then is it just about guaranteed to be the alternator. If you can get them to do the ground recall even if your truck isn't part of it, it would rule more thing out. Now, onto the turbo surging. Since this is somewhat of an isolated problem I would probably lean towards a bad VGT solenoid. Have they done any work to your turbo that you know of? Hopefully if we can get someone to look up you vin they could tell us what they have done. Well I hope this helps for now. When we find out what has been done I can suggest more from there. I am sure there is others on here who will put in there .02 as well. Don't forget you really should try one more dealer. I wouldn't trust either of those to work on my truck. When you go in there request that ONLY a certified diesel tech work on your truck. BE VERY FIRM ON THIS!! You might want to suggest alternator replacing because you believe your speaker noise is alternator whine.

Best of Luck,
Corey

*Parts Changers*

 

Make sure no matter what....you doucment everything, dates, times, names.....ALL

 

thanks guys, i have saved 4 emails from ford corporation regaurding the pilot injection. They were all blanket responses basically, they completely ignored me complaining each time, and the last email says they are done responding to me and basically too bad for me. I don't know of any recalls yet, i searched the recall section for this truck and nothing came up. there are some tsb's however. maybe you could point me in the direction of the recall numbers. I'll go get the vin number now and post it in a few min. Thanks

 

okay heres the vin. 1FTNF20P94EB25214

 

Can someone look up this vin number just to see which recalls and fixed his dealer has and hasn't done. His problems all seem to be two basic fixes. It would really help..

Thanks,
Corey

 

Ill check it now, and post the results in a few minutes.

Would have gotten to it more quickly, but power has been on and off here and I am running on a generator and a cell phone right now.

 

I'll be back with it soon; OASIS is down until 12:00.

Just let you in on a little something here- I'm not sure what would have made your truck louder after the reflash (possibly something to do with EGR manipulation), but none of the 2004 trucks ever had pilot injection, nor do the 2005's, so they could not have taken it away.

 

PSD 60L Fx4I have a 2004 that had pilot injection, since my engine build date was 8-13-03 (03 engine). I have had no trouble with surging on my truck, but have had the turbo pedestal replaced along with #6 injector. I still experience the occasional dead pedal, mostly when cold, but as of yet they have now found a fix. I have the California emissions, so can't disconnect the EGR. I am thinking of getting the block off plate from International and just leaving the EGR connected but not operational. Any comments on if this is a good solution? I don't miss the pilot injection as my '93 7.3L could wake the dead after the banks turbo install and dyno tune. The 6.0 is much quieter and tows my 5er at any speed I choose on any grade I have been on.

 

i believe this truck had pilot injection. It was silent like a gas engine until you just touched the accelerator, and then like a switch it sounds loud like a dumptruck. I had heard all the hell stories about the new flash that disables PI and warned the dealer that I did NOT want PI disabled on my truck. They said yeah sure, and then when they flashed it, it was immediately 10X louder. The vin number should tell you which year everything is right? We bought it in october of last year, and it was special ordered as a single cab 2wd without all the extra options, and was supposed to be the "upgraded" engine design without any of the 2003 problems. That's what the salesman told us when he ordered it for us.

Thanks for lookin into my vin number... thats awesome

 

How do i find the engine build date? I looked at the sticker on the right valve cover, and it says international, and also says 2004 but doesnt give a specific date. We ordered the truck in 8-03 and picked it up in october 03.

I really have trouble believing it didnt have pilot injection, since it was almost silent at idle before they flashed it in december, and is extremely loud now. I used to be able to leave it running at the drive through with no problems, now i have to shut it off so the guy in front of me can hear the drive through.

If it was using EGR to make it quiet, then would that make it instantly loud when cracking open the accelerator? Also did the december flash disable the egr valve quieting feature? I need to know for sure before the arbitration.

The tech did make notes on the paperwork that the customer complained after disabling the Pilot injection.

 

Is there someone who could look the vin up? Just wondering what has been done to his and what hasn't. I wish I had the ability to use OASIS, but unfortunately I don't. Soon as someone gives up the report we can start to figure out what would be the next best step. Also, have you have a chance to take it another dealer?

Corey

 

okay, the build date I believe I've found on the computer module above the drivers side rocker cover. It says 06 October 2003. I am very confident of the PI being originally installed, and that is the big reason with the lemon law issue.

If they sold me a truck that was NOT advertised as quiet, just a standard diesel, than I wouldnt care. BUT the salesman that showed us the truck on the lot was all over the issue of "look and listen to how quiet the new technology diesel engines are..." We had a 94 7.3 liter since it was new, and I think it was quieter than this one is with PI disabled. We traded it in for the new 6.0, and with 120K miles the 7.3 never had one single problem period.

BUT the new supposedly better technology 6.0 liter is nothing but full of issues, and I fear the resale value is going to be crap. When people go to look for a truck, and actually do research they are going to run into this website and see hundreds of pages of problems dealing with: crank rear main seals, injectors failing and filling the crankcase with fuel, surging, rough idle problems, smoking, poor mileage, chaffed wires, air filter contamination gauges that never work, dipsticks that are not reading accurately, vgt valves causing near accidents, egr valves failing or causing premature cylinder wear, whining in speakers from heated mirrors, transmission solenoids causing trannies to not go into gear, turbos failing, just an endless list of problems associated with that engine and it's going to ruin my resale value.. And its not just me, its hundreds of other people with the same problem.

There are people who don't have any problems, or who choose to ignore the problems. Not me, I love the truck, and believe ford is too big of a company to turn their back on me or any other fan of their trucks. In 5 years noones going to want to buy the problem ridden 2003-2004 models, it is going to be "stay away from those years, buy the 2005 or newer since they have the problems worked out..."