460 timing
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New User
Joined: Jul 2004
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460 timing
I,m sure this has been covered but my question is about total timing on a mildly built 460, it has edelbrock rpm intake, ed. carb mild performance cam, 2" equal length headers, MSD dist. and msd 6 digital controller, I run a c6 with 4:11 rear gears what total timing could I run and where should I be with inital timing. When I use around 14 deg In. with 21 deg built in the MSD dist it doesn't run that good if i time it the old school way ,run it up to 3000 rpm give it all it will take advanced it runs better but it seems to build up engine heat. The MSD 6 dig. has a 20 deg retard built into the starting circuit so I don't know how much total advanced I am when timing by ear. I don't seem to have pre ignition problems just to much heat. When running down the road 3000 rpm at around 65 MPH the temp seems to keep climing its hit 220 and I got a 180 stat in it, at 3000 my Msd is in totall advance I've got the light springs installed it seems to run best with them. This is my first ford big block any help would be appreciated
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
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Quick Question. Are you running an over bore? at 60 over mine builds heat pretty quick at those rpms. If you are punched it will cause a small heating problem. i'm running the stock computer dist. and crap so my app is dif. my base is set at 17 BTDC when the comp. takes over it at times hits better than 35. If the motor runs good with no Spk. Knock. I would take a quick look at the radiator and pump. Also make sure your Thermostat is opening fully. Had that problem before. Also a good fan, electric or mech. with a good clutch will make a world of diff.
Tuned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 345
Likes: 4
From: Southern IL
Was told that the 20 retard is for cranking only, it reduces stress on the starter etc. Old Grey is an 83 Carb Truck but the decal on the valve cover says for timeing to be set at 8 degrees BTC. If it's advanced very far, it will run hot. I'm currently using a 160, backflushed radiator, then cleaned the fins, (very important) with factory time but, when my timeing is fast it will overheat as well. I can usually get one within 2 dregrees by ear. Get it running, advance it until it just starts knocking under load, then back it off until it quits. If it still starts good, then it's going to be close.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 147
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From: Portland, OR
I'm so confused as to what my timing should be set at. I've seen a range in these forums from 6 BTDC to 20 BTDC. Right now I'm running at about 8 BTDC and I'm having starting issues as well as backfiring through the carb (big flames) when I punch the gas.
Here's what I have:
-79 F250
-460 stock rebuild, stock distributor
-Carter AFB 4 bbl
-C6 Auto with Air Conditioning
What should I be setting the timing to?
In addition, my distributor seems frozen to the block -- won't budge. Any tips on how to loosen without breakage?
Thanks in advance.
__________________
stanz
74 Bronco Sport, 302 Stock
79 F250 Trailer Special, 460 4x4 Extend Cab
Here's what I have:
-79 F250
-460 stock rebuild, stock distributor
-Carter AFB 4 bbl
-C6 Auto with Air Conditioning
What should I be setting the timing to?
In addition, my distributor seems frozen to the block -- won't budge. Any tips on how to loosen without breakage?
Thanks in advance.
__________________
stanz
74 Bronco Sport, 302 Stock
79 F250 Trailer Special, 460 4x4 Extend Cab
Tuned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 345
Likes: 4
From: Southern IL
My suggestion is this. A good old tune up, between 8 and 12 degrees BTC, and clean very well all around the Dist. Use a small brush and clean around it some more then, spray it with WD once or twice a day for about a week. I bet it will turn then.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
From: Portland, OR
Originally Posted by Brad Johnson
1) How much converter are you running? 2) How much radiator do you have? 2) Do you have an auxiliary tranny cooler.
Brad
Brad
Question 2 - The rad is HUGE. I'm told its the largest capacity availble. Takes over a gallon of AF just to drain enough to change the top rad hose.
Other Question 2 - Aux tranny cooler: Yes I do.
Things I've changed so far, and no improvement to idle or backfire:
-Autolite Plugs
-BW Brass Cap/Rotor
-MSD Heli Coil Wires
-Russell Fuel Filter
-New Fuel Pump
-New Air Cleaner
-New Vacuum Advance
-AutoMeter Temp Gauge - Runs 190 all day long, never gone above 205.
Truck runs 18-20 lbs vacuum steady. It's killing me that I can't get it running good. Others have suggested the accelerator pump may also be to blame for the backfiring and flames... have very limited time to work on it, have not had time to rip the carb apart. Another variable, I know the owner messed with jets and metering rods. I have no idea what it is calibrated to. Runs great at cruise if I don't mosh the throttle.
Last edited by stanz; Sep 14, 2004 at 12:48 AM.
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Senior User
Joined: May 2004
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I just posted this somewhere else in the forums, but it sounds like it might be appropriate here, too.
check out the pics under my gallery! Right after I bought my truck, it would stall out every once in a while, and a couple times it popped and then acted like it threw the timing chain. But most of the time it ran good, just didn't have any power (for a 460).
I finally got tired of that, and got it diagnosed at a local shop. turned out the tining gear KEYWAY was so wore out, the timing was wandering almost 40 degrees!!! replaced the timing chain and gears ( at a cost of about $80.00)
and now she runs very strong!!
IT was actually al lot easier than I thought it would be to change, even with P/S AND A/C. Took about 4 hrs.
Good Luck!!
check out the pics under my gallery! Right after I bought my truck, it would stall out every once in a while, and a couple times it popped and then acted like it threw the timing chain. But most of the time it ran good, just didn't have any power (for a 460).
I finally got tired of that, and got it diagnosed at a local shop. turned out the tining gear KEYWAY was so wore out, the timing was wandering almost 40 degrees!!! replaced the timing chain and gears ( at a cost of about $80.00)
and now she runs very strong!!
IT was actually al lot easier than I thought it would be to change, even with P/S AND A/C. Took about 4 hrs.
Good Luck!!
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 125
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Ohh! My distributor was frozen too the block also, but a lot of soaking with penatration oil and a cresent wrench, along with a lot of patience, finally got it loose!
But it was easier loosening it when the front of the engine was tore apart to replace the timing chain, easier access for the cresent wrench!! Just DON'T get in a hurry and snap the dist. housing. it took me 3 days of soaking!!!
But it was easier loosening it when the front of the engine was tore apart to replace the timing chain, easier access for the cresent wrench!! Just DON'T get in a hurry and snap the dist. housing. it took me 3 days of soaking!!!
Tuned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 345
Likes: 4
From: Southern IL
Backfiring is caused by one of two things. Fuel and fire of coarse. If it's not firing at the right time, it will backfire, especially during cold starts. The other is that the Holley carbs have a valve located on the bottom, and if it ever backfires even one time, it can cause your truck to continue to backfire. So, is your timing advanced to the point right before engine ping will occur under a load? This method of timing will give you the greatest crank from your starter, make up for any slack in the chain, all sorts of stuff. If timing is correct, carb is the culpret, most likely that is.
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 147
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From: Portland, OR
Originally Posted by Chiefrider007
Backfiring is caused by one of two things. Fuel and fire of coarse. If it's not firing at the right time, it will backfire, especially during cold starts. The other is that the Holley carbs have a valve located on the bottom, and if it ever backfires even one time, it can cause your truck to continue to backfire. So, is your timing advanced to the point right before engine ping will occur under a load? This method of timing will give you the greatest crank from your starter, make up for any slack in the chain, all sorts of stuff. If timing is correct, carb is the culpret, most likely that is.
I forgot to mention above that the previous owner claimed to have just replaced the timing chain with a heavy duty double roller.
Carter (Edelbrock) carbs do not have power valves, so this is not a factor in the equation.
Tuned
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 345
Likes: 4
From: Southern IL
If it doesn't break free, you can try a flat chisel, or flat tip screwdriver in my case, and tap it free. The method I use is to first get a notch started in the shaft material down low on the larger portion, then drop the chisel to an angle and lightly tap it with a hammer, ratchet, etc. If it had any chain and gear work done within the past few years, it should come right out, I would think. Good luck.
Elder User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 565
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From: saxton pa.
Distributor froze
PB BLASTER, BRAKE FLUID , ATF, try pouring boiling hot water down over
DIST when engine is cold, Heating one part then cooling the other usually
busts loose stuck parts. I have had luck with spraying DIST housing with
Freon with the engine warmed up.
I HOPE THIS HELPS HOTWRENCH
DIST when engine is cold, Heating one part then cooling the other usually
busts loose stuck parts. I have had luck with spraying DIST housing with
Freon with the engine warmed up.
I HOPE THIS HELPS HOTWRENCH