fuel + spark =... nothing?
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 351
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From: Arkansas
i did this!!
that is what i did at the very very first the only discrepency is that i could not feel exactly when the piston toped out at about 10-20 btc the piston was coming up pretty fast then it leveled off and started to drop off about 15-25atc so anywhere between 15atc-10btc it coulda topped out this is where the 90% comes from i cant tell exactly if the h balancer is degree for degree marked
but i set it at 0btc
then i put the rotor on No.1 it did not fire not even try and when i was watching it with the timing light it did not even try to fire on 0 (where i set it) it actaully lite about 10atc i adjusted it to all the different ranges i specified did not fire anywhere
that is what i did at the very very first the only discrepency is that i could not feel exactly when the piston toped out at about 10-20 btc the piston was coming up pretty fast then it leveled off and started to drop off about 15-25atc so anywhere between 15atc-10btc it coulda topped out this is where the 90% comes from i cant tell exactly if the h balancer is degree for degree marked
but i set it at 0btc
then i put the rotor on No.1 it did not fire not even try and when i was watching it with the timing light it did not even try to fire on 0 (where i set it) it actaully lite about 10atc i adjusted it to all the different ranges i specified did not fire anywhere
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 75
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From: Central Virginia
How are you spinning the engine? You should have a ratchet or breaker-bar on the balancer bolt, and turn the engine slowly by hand....
When you get close to 0 TDC, put a screwdriver in the #1 sparkplug hole to see if the piston is close to the top.. If it is, leave the screwdriver in the hole, and watch it while you slowly hand crank the engine. You will see the screwdriver move up... Stop when it is all the way to the top... You will then TRULY be at 0 TDC.
Then, you can set your distributor so the rotor contact is directly under the #1 plug tower...
When you get close to 0 TDC, put a screwdriver in the #1 sparkplug hole to see if the piston is close to the top.. If it is, leave the screwdriver in the hole, and watch it while you slowly hand crank the engine. You will see the screwdriver move up... Stop when it is all the way to the top... You will then TRULY be at 0 TDC.
Then, you can set your distributor so the rotor contact is directly under the #1 plug tower...
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Arkansas
exactly i used a deep 15/16 " socket on the h bal bolt turned the motor slowly clockwise while someone watched the time pointer and called out degrees i used a piece of wire in the No. 1 plug hole to feel the piston come up level off and fall down however there are several degrees where the piston is level i cant tell exactly which degree is the highest point
and yes i aligned the rotor to no. 1 plug wire terminal when i confirmed the markings were accurate
but as i have said i used a light when the motor was turning over the light would flas and it was not flashing at the point i aligned it was late about 10 degrees so i advanced it to all the different settings i mentioned above
and yes i aligned the rotor to no. 1 plug wire terminal when i confirmed the markings were accurate
but as i have said i used a light when the motor was turning over the light would flas and it was not flashing at the point i aligned it was late about 10 degrees so i advanced it to all the different settings i mentioned above
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 75
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From: Central Virginia
Unless the balancer slipped, the piston should be at the top when the balancer pointer is at 0 TDC... Is it?
Do you currently have the the the rotor contact pointing directly under the #1 plug tower with the balancer pointer set to 0 TDC?.. (after confirming the piston is all the way up) If not, do it... It is the only place you want it to be.
If it still does not start there, at least it will be correct to continue troubleshooting.
It is just damn strange that it ran before you fooled with the timing...
I have a fresh 302 on a motorstand in my basement.... the balancer pointer is set exactly to 0 TDC... I can shine a flashlight in the #1 sparkplug hole, and clearly see the piston is at the top...
Do you currently have the the the rotor contact pointing directly under the #1 plug tower with the balancer pointer set to 0 TDC?.. (after confirming the piston is all the way up) If not, do it... It is the only place you want it to be.
If it still does not start there, at least it will be correct to continue troubleshooting.
It is just damn strange that it ran before you fooled with the timing...
I have a fresh 302 on a motorstand in my basement.... the balancer pointer is set exactly to 0 TDC... I can shine a flashlight in the #1 sparkplug hole, and clearly see the piston is at the top...
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Arkansas
tell me about it i cant figure it out
and yes i defiantly set it at 0 and the piston was up i dont know if EXACTLY topped out but i had to be pretty close and i did put the rotor aligned with No.1 and it did NOT start that is y i started this thread and the other one it didnt fire right up like it should have i thought that maybe it wasnt exactly at tdc so i not only checked the piston location and movement with the wire i also used the light and checked many different timings and none worked
LOL a little bit faster and we would have instant messaging goin on
and yes i defiantly set it at 0 and the piston was up i dont know if EXACTLY topped out but i had to be pretty close and i did put the rotor aligned with No.1 and it did NOT start that is y i started this thread and the other one it didnt fire right up like it should have i thought that maybe it wasnt exactly at tdc so i not only checked the piston location and movement with the wire i also used the light and checked many different timings and none worked
LOL a little bit faster and we would have instant messaging goin on
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 75
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From: Central Virginia
You can pull the #1 plug, stick the wire back on it, and hold it so that the bottom ground on the plug is touching the cylinder head. Have someone crank the engine, look and see how hot of a spark (if any) you are getting on the plug.... (use long pliers with insulated handles 
)
)
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 351
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From: Arkansas
there are only one set of markings? on my h balancer that i saw
where are the markings for the exhaust stroke at? if this is the fix it will be oh so great
where are the markings for the exhaust stroke at? if this is the fix it will be oh so great
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 602
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From: Huntersville
You can't tell by looking at the balancer. The best way is to pull hte right valve cover so you can watch the valve open and close. As you slowly turn the engine by hand watch the valves go through their 4 strokes, intake, compression, power and exhaust. As the intake valve is closing and you rotate the engine on around where both valves are closed and piston comes up to the top of the stroke, the balancer comes around to TDC, this is Tdc of the compression stroke, where you want to time it to. See by just going by the piston being at the top and the balancer being at TDC it could be either on the compression stroke or the exhasut stroke.
Clint
Clint
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 75
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From: Central Virginia
Or you can just put your finger over the sparkplug hole while you hand crank the engine... You will feel it blow when you are at the compression stroke... I should have made that clear, but I assumed you knew that... That's what I get for assuming... 
Good call guy's...
Good call guy's...
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Arkansas
yeah no kidding LOL you shoulda known not to assume i mean who woulda messed up the timing in the first place anyways
but really it was blowing air out as it approached tdc i had my finger in it and i could feel air getting pushed out i just didnt hold it in there till it got very compressed
back to the drawing board!
i mean it could be off by 180 but it was blowing air out when it was coming up and i didnt try holding my finger in to force it out the exhaust valve but from what i remember it was coming up so slowly that if the valve was open it woulda gone out that way
but really it was blowing air out as it approached tdc i had my finger in it and i could feel air getting pushed out i just didnt hold it in there till it got very compressed
back to the drawing board!
i mean it could be off by 180 but it was blowing air out when it was coming up and i didnt try holding my finger in to force it out the exhaust valve but from what i remember it was coming up so slowly that if the valve was open it woulda gone out that way
Last edited by beastybronco; Aug 13, 2004 at 03:04 PM.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 602
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From: Huntersville
I have used the thumb method in the past and still had it 180 out. I guess with the piston coming up air is going to go the path of least resistance so you could still get the air past the thumb. generally when I have to retime an engine, I'll do the thumb method, with the rotor on number one and at either tdc or about 10 before. If it spits or pops I know it's 180 out so I just pull the dist. up rotate the rotor and try it again.
hope I have helped instead of hurt
Clint
hope I have helped instead of hurt
Clint
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Arkansas
alright i used the thumb method and had someone rotate the engine several complete rotations i know that i am on the compression stroke and i cant be far off 0 tdc
i reset the timing (i had it at 10* after all the different attempts) put on a new coil and rotor still no luck but it was backfiring alot when the throttle was wide open so i went to check the egr and it fell off it was completely rusted through in several places and had been dissconnected for some time and i guess it hadnt affected the computer because it didnt throw any egr codes
so i have no idea what to do
all the timings i tried failed
new coil, module, plugs, wires, cap, rotor
all those timings i tried didnt start one time not even very close to starting
only code i have gotten was 67 which is nothing just the neutral switch
tomorrow i will try codes agian and i forgot to test for spark so i will do that
what do yall think about the egr ? i dont think thats the problem it has obviously been off for yrs and it was runnin before and no code
i reset the timing (i had it at 10* after all the different attempts) put on a new coil and rotor still no luck but it was backfiring alot when the throttle was wide open so i went to check the egr and it fell off it was completely rusted through in several places and had been dissconnected for some time and i guess it hadnt affected the computer because it didnt throw any egr codes
so i have no idea what to do
all the timings i tried failed
new coil, module, plugs, wires, cap, rotor
all those timings i tried didnt start one time not even very close to starting
only code i have gotten was 67 which is nothing just the neutral switch
tomorrow i will try codes agian and i forgot to test for spark so i will do that
what do yall think about the egr ? i dont think thats the problem it has obviously been off for yrs and it was runnin before and no code
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