I find many of the posts in this forum troubling. People often ask "how much can I tow?," and the responses for the most part are good. I get concerned when people advocate exceeding the ratings for the tow vehicle and don't give it a second thought. I've seen some of these type of people in the ditch on the side of the road, and I certainly don't enjoy driving with them on the highway. There's a reason that vehicles have ratings, to protect the vehicle and more importantly, the passengers and other drivers on the road.

There are a lot of different ratings that people should be aware of, and NONE of them should be exceeded. Some of these are:

GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating)-this is the maximum combined weight for the tow vehicle and trailer combined (fully loaded)

GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating)-this is the maximum weight that the vehicle is allowed to weight when fully loaded (includes passengers, fuel, accessories, etc.)

GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating)-this is the maximum allowable weight on the axle

Tire Rating-all tires will have the maximum weight rating on the sidewall

Axle ratio and engine are also taken into consideration by Ford when setting the tow rating for any given vehicle. Another tip I would give anyone who is buying a trailer is to consider the loaded weight of the trailer, not the dry weight. The majority of posts quote the dry weight which isn't really that important. What is important is what it will weigh when you tow it. I've known very few underpackers, so count on it being loaded to the max (GVWR of the trailer). Also keep in mind that the dry weight quoted by the majority of companies does not include any accessories and is based on the base model.

General towing tips:

1. Make sure the trailer is level. This is a must for proper handling.
2. Get a good brake controller (if applicable)
3. Make sure to cross the safety chains (it's the law)
4. If you have a fifth wheel, make sure you have at least 6" of clearance over the bed rails.
5. If you have a "bumper pull" trailer, the tongue weight should be anywhere between 10-15% (boat trailers may vary)
6. If you have a fifth wheel or gooseneck, the pin weight should be anywhere between 20-25%.
7. Make sure you will not exceed ANY rating for your vehicle.
8. If you are towing a trailer of any length with "bumper pull" hitch, I highly recommend a weight distributing hitch.

I'm sure I missed a couple of points that someone could add. Sorry if this seems like a rant, but I've been concerned about the content of some of the posts in this forum recently. Safety is a concern not only to the owner, but to the other drivers on the road as well. When giving advice in this forum please think twice about how it effects everyone on the road.

 

with the number of posts on this topic lately, this should be put as a sticky...

 

John -

Good post!!! As an add to your #5, most boat trailers have a recommended tongue weight of 5-8%.

Steve

 

Thanks John! Good info.
Let's sticky this thread for a while.

 

Part of the GVWR you forgot to add was the pin weight of the trailer, but great post!

Jason

 

John, Ya gotta add some common sense in the mix. Ratings mean just that, it is rated to work in that range. I read in posts that you can't tow that load with a 3.55 gear ratio but you can with a 3.73, when the only difference in the rear is that the 3.73 is turning your engine faster at 55 mph, same bearings, axles, and lube in both. Ford can rate it's truck one way and Dodge another with the same basic equipment. Companies like Dana have built a lot of the axles on the road today, from jeeps to the big rigs.

For you to suggest that people that don't exceed anything, don't get in the ditch or cause any wrecks or mishaps, is PURE BS. IMHO

John

 

State Laws require that any towed vehicle exceeding a specified weight, usually about 1,000 to 1,500 lb.., must have it's own braking system. The alternate method for determining allowable trailer weight requires that you know the loaded weight of the tow vehicle and the loaded weight of the trailer (something we don't know when we are on the dealer's lot). The sum of these loaded weights must not exceed the tow vehicles GCWR. If you use the alternate method for computing allowable trailer weight, you risk not being able to load the tow vehicle more than the weight you used when you calculated the allowable trailer weight. There are also limits placed on the tongue or "hitch weight" when towing a travel trailer. Plan on 12% of the trailer's GVWR as hitch weight; actual hitch weight when connected should fall between 9% and 12% of the trailer's loaded weight. Fifth-wheel pin weight comes out of the trucks payload capacity, and you should plan on 18% of the fiver's GVWR. With the fiver hitched-up the pin weight should be between 15% and 18% of the trailer's loaded weight. No combination should ever exceed the tow vehicle's Gross Axle Weight Ratings, front or rear.

This is from rversonline the guys name is Peter M Creg tech adviser note pin weight

 

Sorry you feel that way. This thread is not a debate, but a plea to those of you offering advice that IMO is questionable. Sorry, I've seen far too many rigs in the ditch to feel any different and I've passed many a person on the road that can't control the vehicle. Ratings are there for a reason. Sure, if you have the exact same vehicle with a higher gear ratio it is rated to tow less, but you can damage your vehicle by towing more than what the rating is so why would anyone recommend doing so?

If you go over to an RV forum on the internet or look at any of their publications, they actually recommend you leave a safety margin so that you are not towing within about 10% of the actual rating. My advice is not conservative like this, but is simple COMMON SENSE.

Sorry RVpuller, that info on pin weight is off. I already posted a published source, you have not. Average pin weight is 20%.

The reason this bothers me is that some of the people who post an honest question here have never towed before. If it's not safe, most of them like to know. Reassuring them that towing over the limit is safe and will not harm their vehicle or put them in danger is doing them a disservice.

 

No offense, but I would have thought a moderator and someone with over 7000 posts would know that even masked profanity isn't allowed here.

 

Well, the other day I saw a video of some little car like a Yugo or a Focus towing a 24'-26' travel trailer up a hill. So that proves that axle ratings and GCWR is all a crock. You don't need a big truck to pull a decent sized trailer. Of course the next thing you see in the video is the trailer towing the car downhill with smoke billowing out from the drive wheels as they try to regain traction. Then it jacknifes' and the whole thing flips.

I guess the real reason the manufacturer's issue towing and weight limitations is the same reason why screwdriver's come with a warning admonition not to stick them up your nose.

 

Ok johnsdiesel I went back and figured my pin weight again and pin weight comes out to 18.75% of the total weight. dry it comes out to 18.5%. to bring it up to 20% I wouild have to pile 188lbs in the bedroom and go to 25% I would need 938lbs. I am 1100lbs under max gross so if I when to 25% of max gross my pin weight would be 4025lbs. If I use the manufactures 18.75% it would be 3008lbs. I think you should let the manufactures set the pin ratings they build them not you.

 

When you don't know what the pin weight is, 20% is the best guess. I do let the manufacturers set them, and the average is around 20%. If you do some research of other models and base the pin weight on the loaded weight you will find that a lot of them approach even 25%.

Don't base your information on ONLY trailers you have owned. Regardless of pin weight, you were recommending towing something that isn't even close to being under the GCWR. It will probably push the GCWR for an F450. This is the kind of advice that concerns me. I wasn't going to call anyone out by name, but you've already done that for yourself.

 

What concerns me is you telling people that 20 to 25% is what they sould have. So you get some guy trying to move things around that sould not be moving. The manufactures build this thing they know were the weight and balance points are so let them set the weights. Your so concerned about the GVW of the truck and them you tell poeple to forget about the trailer weights and go by yours. One size shoe dosn't fit all.

 

The 20% figure I quoted is the norm. If you do your research you will see that I am correct. Most fifth wheels on the market fall between 20-25% when fully loaded. This isn't my information, it's information available to anyone able to do research. Sure, there are some fifth wheels that have a pin weight of less than 20%, but it's NOT the norm. When you don't know what the pin weight it, 20% is the best figure to guess with. A lot of fifth wheels have a dry pin weight of less than 20%, but the storage compartments when loaded add a lot to the pin weight. If you'll notice, there is usually a lot of storage in the front of a fifth wheel.

It's not the GVW, it's the GVWR. Again, NOT my numbers, but those set forth by Ford. I'm not recommending that people go by my numbers, but go by numbers set forth by the manufacturers. When it comes to the ratings set by Ford, one size shoe DOES fit all. That's why they establish ratings to begin with.

Since I posted this, I have had several PMs sent to me in support of what I posted. Unless you have some proof that the ratings for the truck I based my post on are wrong, you should not advise someone to exceed the GCWR by 20% or more as you did. That's not good common sense. I know for a fact that my numbers for the GCWR and GVWR are correct.

 

Your post said SHOULD BE BETWEEN 20% AND 25%. I'm saying it should be what the manufacture says if SOULD BE. You stated nothing about average ar any thing else. I know you will want the last word and go ahead and have it I trying to get my over weight light on the pin trailer ready so I can put my boat behind it and go fishing for the weekend.


jowilker your last coment says it all I guess we should all have Super Duty trucks and pull Teardrop trailers with a weight distrbuting hitch