I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts or insight about Ford's plans for the future of their engine lineup in the F-Series and other Ford vehicles. Dodge, under Daimler-Chrysler, has effectively declared a horsepower war against Ford and GM with their Hemi V8s, the 5.7L and soon the 6.1L. We already know that Ford intends to counter Dodge's 6.1 with the 6.2L "Hurricane" V8, but it'll have its work cut out for it. From a GM forum to which I am also a member, I have found that inside the SRT-8 version of the forthcoming Dodge Charger there will be the new 6.1L Hemi which will produce 420HP and 390lb-ft of torque, or so it is claimed. Even though that is a car, those performance numbers should be somewhat indicative of what will go into the Ram once it gets that engine. Therefore, if Ford intends to beat Dodge, those numbers should be indicative of about how powerful the new Hurricane should be. Now, with as powerful as this new 6.2L V8 will probably be, would Ford be inclined to replace its 3-valve 6.8L SOHC V10 with it down the road or just produce both engines parallel. Also, with the new 5.4L Triton being the effective equivalent to Dodge's 5.7, will Ford try to increase its horsepower and torque numbers over the next few years to make it more attractive on paper (regardless of real-world performance, defending 300HP against 345HP has to be difficult at times; Ford needs to point out the Hemi's reliance on mid-grade gas for its numbers). And finally, with the new 4.6L SOHC V8 w/3-valves per cylinder going into the 2005 Mustang, what is Ford's plans for this engine in regards to the F-150? Will they go with the full 300HP that it's capable of and simply point out that the 5.4, also having 300HP, is actually more powerful because of its torque advantage or will they scale back its performance numbers so as not to infringe on the 5.4 at all. With the competition in the world of trucks and SUVs heating up I've become very interested in the direction Ford intends to go with in regards to performance. Aside from what kind of performance these engines will put out, it would also be good to know where else they will be used and when, e.g. when will the Explorer get a 3-valve engine, etc. Please speculate! But try to keep things realistic. I'm sure we all would be more interested in plausible scenarios, not wishful thinking.

 

As far as the v10 is concerned, who knows but Ford. I am going to speculate 275hp for the truck 4.6. The 2v mustang is 260hp, with 3v heads it is supposed to be 300. The truck 2v is 235hp so if you maintain the same 40hp increase they will be around 275. You have to remember that the trucks use a different intake with longer runners for better torque. Those longer runners also inhibit top end air flow and upper rpm hp. I would assume they would go with the 3v heads across the board, in all vehicles, e.g. Crown Vic, Explorer, but who is to say how long they will take to phase them in across the board.....

 

Yes, 3-valve heads will certainly be a boon to Ford's engine performance across the board, especially in oldies like the Crown Victoria. Law enforcement groups have always wanted more performance out of their Crown Vics but the desired 5.4L SOHC V8 w/2-valves, let alone the 3-valve variant or better, won't fit while the 4.6L DOHC V8 is considered too expensive. A 3-valve 4.6 could be the answer to their problems.

One thing that I was thinking would be really cool, but probably wouldn't happen, is a new V10 based on the upcoming 6.2L V8. Such an engine would be a whopping 7.8L (481cu. in.) displacement! That would sure blow away GM's 8.1L V8.

 

I do know that Ford is releasing some new Modular crate engines that make great power and are 5.0L. They can be run with a carb without all of the electronics of a new car.
As for production vehicles, I'm not real sure. It seems that Ford should be more worried about the Nissan Titan. That little thing makes good power too, and supposidly out-pulls the Hemi and can tow up to 9500lbs!!!
I agree that Ford needs to quit being so conservative with the power. Heck, Chevy's old pushrod LTI engines in the last Camaros built was making 40 more HP than the Cobra until Ford supercharged it.
I personally believe that Ford should up the cubic inches. 281 and 330 are not really big enough to make great torque numbers without forced induction.
A 400ci Modular engine would be nice and should produce good power.

Also, while I'm on a roll, why is it that Ford must use 4 cat converters (well, 2 preheaters and 2 converters) to pass emmisions and choke these things down, when the other guys do it with 1????

 

is that what those are preheaters
me i am suprised that we are not up to 1000hp in this hp war the more we get the more we want more hp more cost in keeping it together for lets see 200k miles
If we need more than stock there is a large after market and what fun would it be if every engine from the factory was already maxed out
there would be no need for speed shops and only engineers (you know those guys lucky enough to have pratied for 4 years on daddys credit and get that peice of paper that says the are smart) and not give the rest of us smart people(no paper needed) any reason to bench race now what fun would that be. welcome to walmart, would you like an apple pie with that, ohhh the horror!!!

 

Imo, Ford already has the big guns to blow dodge out of the water, and it isnt in the form of a bigger motor.

The motor in the Ford GT is nothing more than a really, really fine tuned 5.4L with a blower on it. 500HP and 500tq, not to shabby....oh and did I mention that the GT motor went through all the same tests that a standard car/truck motor goes through for emmisions and all that garbage, even though it wouldn't have...kinda makes a person wonder why Ford would do such a thing, huh?

 

robert yates racing and ford developed a 5.0L modular V8. why not just toss the 4.6 and go with that?? or could this be the motor just for the rumored boss 302 that ford is talking about coming out with.

 

I thought Ford updated the specifications of the F-150 and bumped its rated towing capacity up to 9500lbs.

I agree that Ford wouldn't be making a bad decision in increasing the displacement of its engines but I think Ford would balk at the idea because it thinks that its engines are already adequate, which is probably true but it would be a stretch to call them class-leading. Boring out their engines by 4/10 of a liter to increase their displacements is a potential solution, but they would probably reserve the engines for higher-end applications. It would be neat to see 5.0L and 5.8L (bored out 4.6 and 5.4 respectively) displacement engines again though.

 

First of all, Ford updated the performance numbers for the GT's powerplant. Initially it did produce 500HP@6000RPM and 500lb.ft. of torque@4000RPM (or was it 4500RPM?) but, engineers messed aroud with it and increased the horsepower to 550@6500RPM and kept the torque at 500lb.ft. but reduced the RPM requirement to 3750. Secondly, although these are impressive numbers and a supercharged engine is appropriate for a high perfomance vehicle like the GT, it is less practical for a regular work truck or other, more conventional applications like a four-door sedan. What I would like to see is what Ford can do without having to resort to a supercharger. In fact, with that in mind, I would really be interested in seeing what kind of performance the GT's 5.4L DOHC V8 can put out without the aid of its supercharger. Such performance, which I'd assume would be high, could be of good use in a luxury application at Lincoln such as in a future Navigator or even a luxury sedan (I assume the GT's 5.4 isn't completely identical to the Navigator's 5.4 mechanically and is much more powerful even without its supercharger). Lincoln's supposedly coming out with two new sedans for 2008 and 2009 although one if not both of these cars are going to be FWD/AWD natively, which may shoot down the idea of using a 5.4, or any other V8 for that matter.

 

I am assuming that you havent read the Hot Rod article on the Ford GT...the motor was stuck into 3 striped down F-250's as part of it's testing.

My point was merely that Ford already has the means to up the out put of its current line of engines with out major changes....the fact that the GT has a blower is irrelevant IMO.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Dodge start having trouble with CAFE, especially with all the vehicles that they are putting this hemi gas pig in.

 

Ah, if Ford has the means to increase the output of its existing engines without having to resort to supercharging, why haven't they done it yet? Sure, 3 valve heads is a big step forward, but it doesn't seem to be enough. The saying "there's no replacement for displacement" comes to mind. Is it really just because of corporate average fuel economy? I wonder if Ford has any "displacement on demand" type technologies in the works for the near future. Anyway, the supercharged all-aluminum 5.4L DOHC V8 of the GT, or at least a variant of it, is supposed to go in next SVT Lightning (2005?) to take out the Dodge Ram SRT-10. I would still like to see what the GT's 5.4 can do without its supercharger though, but not for the next Lightning, Ford has a race to win .

 

I think what is also on fords mind is fuel economy, yeah a bigger displacement engine will produce more power but at what cost to milage, ford is currently trying to increase both while dodge is just trying for output power and doesn't seem to be worrying about the type of milage their getting, and with gas prices where they are now, that'll play a big role in sales to and I think that ford it trying to stay on top of that too

 

Yes, I imagine fuel economy is the ultimate barrier that is stopping Ford from jumping onto the cubic inch band wagon. Ford should try to point that out in their advertising, that they have a better average fuel economy than Dodge. The only problem there is that the actual savings may not be enough to get anyone excited. I guess what Ford will ultimately have to do is compromise, like you said, and use good old engineering to get the most out of their engines without sacrificing fuel economy.

Still though, referring back to my initial post, do any of you think Ford's going to try to increase the HP/torque on the new 3 valve 5.4L Triton to close the gap with Dodge, or Nissan for that matter, or do you think they'll just sit on it for the next few years? Also, even though this is an engine discussion, do any of you think the F-150's going to a 5-speed auto within the next few years? My '01 Ranger's got a 5-speed auto, the '05 Super Duty's going to have a 5-speed auto for gas or diesel, where's the F-150's 5-speed auto?

 

as for the fuel economy ford has not choice but to take it into consideration as well. look how the government is putting restrictions on the auto makers to make trucks and SUV's have better fuel economy.

as for the 5 speed auto i think ford will put them in the F150. the new torque shift trans in the f150 behind the 5.4 is great. but if they are going to be putting it in the super duty trucks with gas motors be looking for them to put it in the f150.

 

Cool. Yeah, I just took a second look at the specs of the 2005 Super Duty and the standard automatic, whether one goes with a gas or diesel engine, is going to be a 5-speed. There will be some differences in the transmission depending on which engine one goes with but the point is that both will have five gears. Also available will be a 6-speed manual but beyond being with the 5.4L V8 I don't know how widespread its usage will be. For that matter though, I wouldn't mind seeing that 6-speed in the F-150 also.

Back to the engine discussion.

Does anyone have any idea when the F-150's 4.6 is going to go 3-valve? And what kind of V6 is it supposed to be getting for '05?