I've been swindled!!!!!
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Elder User
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From: Kingsland, GA
I've been swindled!!!!!
Well, I was under the hood replacing injector o-rings today, pulled off the driver's side valve cover, and there it was... Rust on all the rocker arms and the whole valve train in general. Great. I started thinking, what if this motor isn't the one that was originally in the truck? So I started looking around. Hmmm... Loose ground strap bolt on the back of the drivers side cylinder head, loose bolts on the fan shrouding, wear on the lifting lugs, couple broken tabs on electrical connectors in the engine compartment. This doesn't look good. So I went underneath the truck. No inspection cover, all the bolts on the engine/tranny junction are chewed. Wait a sec, I've been swindled!!!! There's NO WAY this motor was originally in THIS TRUCK. Great. Besides the fact that I'm nearly physically ill now, I'm calling the dealership tomorrow and going nuclear on the phone. And it's not that I CAN'T afford to put a re-man in it, I don't WANT to. So, is there any way to tell if this motor was originally in this truck? I'm pretty sure they swaped the valve covers (the big green sticker would be too obvious), but there has to be a number SOMEWHERE that tells what year/truck this motor came out of so I can nail this guy to a tree. Help me out here guys, I REALLY need you now!!!
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Joined: Oct 2003
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From: Baltimore
On the top front of the driver's side valve cover is a International identification label. The label will include the build date and a seven digit sequence number. On the engine block behind the engine oil cooler, stamped in a vertical line, is the full engine identification number. It is on the same flat machined area as the cooler. The last seven digits should correspond with the sequence number on the label. If the numbers don't match, the cover has been switched. Using the full engine identification number, Ford should be able to tell you what truck, including the vehicle identifiaction number, the engine was installed in. International can verify the build date. At the very least, Ford should be able to tell you if the engine is original to your truck.
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Elder User
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From: Kingsland, GA
OK, got the EIN and the valve cover #... Didn't see a specific sequence # on the valve cover sticker, so I'll post pics so somebody to straighten me out, but I didn't see a match anywhere, so I think I can start feeling much better about ripping this guy a new one come tomorrow!
# on block
1ju2u1429387
Pictures of valve cover:
Only 7 digit # I could find on the cover was 1831786. In addition, on the front of the block, I found 1831654-02. Dunno which is which, but somebody help me nail this guy!
# on block
1ju2u1429387
Pictures of valve cover:
Only 7 digit # I could find on the cover was 1831786. In addition, on the front of the block, I found 1831654-02. Dunno which is which, but somebody help me nail this guy!
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From: Baltimore
It should be a white label on the driver's side under the intercooler pipe and has seven numbers in bold print in the middle. The numbers are larger than all of the other information. It will have the production date on the bottom. I think it also has a bar code. The label in the picture should be on the passenger side.
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Elder User
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From: Kingsland, GA
Duh, that is the passenger side one... The white sticker with the barcode and big # on the driver's side is nearly incomprehensible, as you can see, but there definately is a 5 followed by a #3, and since there isn't a 5 anywhere on the EIN I pulled by the oil cooler, I think we have a fraud. I'll call the Ford (and an International dealer, if necessary) to verify tomorrow, but I'm pretty sure I get to get really mad tomorrow...
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Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Elverson, PA
Hmm - that seems awful convienent??
Not to be dumb - but I'm wondering what exactly you are so upset about exactly? You haven't explained much about the situation. Did you buy the truck new or with a warranty or garuntee?? What are you gonna "nail the guy to a tree" for?? IMO - it'd be partly your *** for not checking the truck out closer before buying it.
Not to be dumb - but I'm wondering what exactly you are so upset about exactly? You haven't explained much about the situation. Did you buy the truck new or with a warranty or garuntee?? What are you gonna "nail the guy to a tree" for?? IMO - it'd be partly your *** for not checking the truck out closer before buying it.
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Elder User
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From: Kingsland, GA
Not a whole lot you can check before buying, especially when it comes to verifying engine serial #'s and such. I'm not upset that the truck needed work, but I AM kinda miffed that the truck was repeatedly advertised with 37K miles, which this obviously has WAY more than. Probably would have been easier to figure out if it was a gasser, but these diesels run so similarly whether that have 20K or 220K that it can be hard to tell from just a test drive and a visual once-over. My point now is that this defiantely constitutes fraud, a vehicle billed and sold as a 2000 with 37K is actually a 2000 with an unknown year motor and way more than 37K miles. I'm gonna give the guy a chance to make good on it, as I don't know if he knew, and I wouldn't even mind taking another vehicle off his lot, so he can keep his business from me. But this thing definately needs to be his problem since it was grossly mis-represented. The best part is, my credit-union, the Navy, and me all don't like people taking advantage of me, and it wouldn't be the first time I've seen my credit-union go after somebody for mis-representing a vehicle they financed (protecting their assets). I'll have to make some phone calls tomorrow, until then, I'll be at home stewing...
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Posting Guru
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From: Elverson, PA
Aahh I see now - thanks for some explanation!! Well - hope you get it figured out and good luck!!
O yea - the false milage thing never crossed my mind either - not cool. Another possibility could be that the motor was removed for work - not that that's good either with that few miles on it, but possible.
O yea - the false milage thing never crossed my mind either - not cool. Another possibility could be that the motor was removed for work - not that that's good either with that few miles on it, but possible.
Last edited by CAT_man_963; Jul 18, 2004 at 05:38 PM.
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Elder User
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Kingsland, GA
Yeah, it may be a little hard to see, but does this rusty collection of steel look like the valve train of a 2000 year motor with 37K? This is the oh-so-happy sight that greeted me when I took the passenger side valve cover off this morning! This is when I REALLY started to wonder!
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Elder User
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From: Kingsland, GA
Well, called Ford and International this morning, and while I didn't come up with any hard evidence (yet), the international dealer did say that the fact that the EIN did not come up in his computer was an indication of a block that was from 97 at the latest, the year that International began cataloguing EIN numbers. Ford said that there should be a metal tag on the camshaft cover that should match a number they pulled up for me based on the vehicle's VIN #. A call to my lawyer this morning definately puts my in a good place for a judgement in my favor, so I'm going out to check for this tag and calling the dealership as well... I'll let you all know how it goes...
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
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From: Breckenridge, Colorado
Hate to go trolling for lawyers, but couldn't a truck have 37k miles on it and still have a replacement engine? Would it be fraud if, for instance, the dealer took it in on trade and didn't know the engine had been replaced?
Senior User
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: East Hampton, NY
Jumping in here.
That would make it pretty difficult to show intent to defraud. But wouldnt a dealer run all the numbers before they took something in on trade? They would then know the history. I guess if the motor was replaced by someone other than a dealer, it wouldn't show up on oasis or whatever.
-shawn
That would make it pretty difficult to show intent to defraud. But wouldnt a dealer run all the numbers before they took something in on trade? They would then know the history. I guess if the motor was replaced by someone other than a dealer, it wouldn't show up on oasis or whatever.
-shawn
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Elder User
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From: Kingsland, GA
Even if the dealer didn't know or wasn't aware about it, it still falls on them for mis-labeling and selling a product inconsistant with it's description. If they want restitution, they're gonna have to go up the ladder one chain and get it from those people. Unfortunate for the dealership, I agree, but there's no way I'm letting this fall on me. If a woman can win millions of dollars for burning her crotch after spilling red-hot coffee on it just because the cup didn't say "Warning, HOT!", then I can certainly get my 15K back for the 7500# paperweight in my driveway right now... And, you know what the worst part is, it's not that I can't afford to put a re-man in the thing, it's become more of a matter of principle now, that this dealer's not owning up to the facts (He got super-****ed after telling me there way NO WAY POSSIBLE for that truck to have a different engine in it and hung up on me), and is basically being a stick in the mud. I can distinctly remember when Packard Bell was sued for putting old computer parts in it's "new" computers, and that one put that company under... Waiting for a call-back from my lawyer, maybe some court papers can motivate him to take the thing back... 