460 oiling problem
460 Oiling Problem
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460 Oiling Problem
Hello
I have rebuilt a 76 ford 460. Machine shop had me go back Std. on everything
I used a SVO high volume pump a Moroso rear sump with there matching pickup
On start up ran the motor in at about 2500 rpm after it was prelubed for 30 min.
Motor runs 10lbs pressure per 1000 rpm holds about 15 to 20 at idle. My problem
is when I let it set awhile like overnite it has no oil pressure at start up for 5 to 10 secs. unless I gas it a little,also I've changed the oil twice now and the filter is never more than over half full. Motor has about 200 miles on it now cut filter open and nothing out of the ordinary in it I fill the filter as full as I can before I put it on, same thing. Help
I have rebuilt a 76 ford 460. Machine shop had me go back Std. on everything
I used a SVO high volume pump a Moroso rear sump with there matching pickup
On start up ran the motor in at about 2500 rpm after it was prelubed for 30 min.
Motor runs 10lbs pressure per 1000 rpm holds about 15 to 20 at idle. My problem
is when I let it set awhile like overnite it has no oil pressure at start up for 5 to 10 secs. unless I gas it a little,also I've changed the oil twice now and the filter is never more than over half full. Motor has about 200 miles on it now cut filter open and nothing out of the ordinary in it I fill the filter as full as I can before I put it on, same thing. Help
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From: Indiana
mark a. is right.
If things are right, you should have more oil pressure than what you are getting.
I guess you have verified the pressure with a manual gauge? You used a gasket between the oil pump and the pickup tube?
If things are right, you should have more oil pressure than what you are getting.
I guess you have verified the pressure with a manual gauge? You used a gasket between the oil pump and the pickup tube?
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Motor runs 10lbs pressure per 1000 rpm holds about 15 to 20 at idle. My problem is when I let it set awhile like overnite it has no oil pressure at start up for 5 to 10 secs.
No oil pressure at startup after sitting might be cured by going to one of the new anti-reversion oil filters. They have a little flap valve in them that maintains oil volume (not pressure) in the system after shutdown instead of letting it all drain back into the pan. You may also have the pickup too close to the bottom of the pan, causing the pump to have trouble initially lifting the oil up the pickup tube. You should have at least 1/2 in clearance between the pickup screen and the pan.
To echo Superdave's question - you did gasket the mating surfaces between the pump and block, didn't you?
Out of curiousity, what oil are you using?
Brad
Last edited by Brad Johnson; Jul 14, 2004 at 02:12 PM.
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QUOTE "20 psi at low idle (600-700 RPM) and 10psi per 1000 rpm is fine. You will not have any oiling problems with those numbers. In deference to an above post, 50psi at idle is way, way, WAY too much pressure."
My 400 runs 50-60# at a idle cold or hot. It will go down to 40# warm in gear with the brakes applied. it runs 65-75# down the road. This is the nature of these pumps & it certainly is not too much oil pressure. Any filter will handle 80# safely. Any fresh motor with that pump should make more, there is something wrong here.
I wouldn't run it any more until something is figured out, we don't want any Fords to be "found on road
"
My 400 runs 50-60# at a idle cold or hot. It will go down to 40# warm in gear with the brakes applied. it runs 65-75# down the road. This is the nature of these pumps & it certainly is not too much oil pressure. Any filter will handle 80# safely. Any fresh motor with that pump should make more, there is something wrong here.
I wouldn't run it any more until something is figured out, we don't want any Fords to be "found on road
"
Last edited by mark a.; Jul 14, 2004 at 02:56 PM.
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If the pickup tube has a hole in it or the flange where it bolts to the pump is warped will cause this problem or if the pickup is to close the the bottom of the pan. All the oil filters are supposed to have check valves in them to stop them froming draining back when the engine is shutdown. Or you have a bad pump.
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This is the nature of these pumps & it certainly is not too much oil pressure. Any filter will handle 80# safely. Any fresh motor with that pump should make more, there is something wrong here.
It might be the nature of the pump, but it's still too much pressure for a streeter. 20 psi at unloaded idle is plenty, and 10 psi per 1000 rpm is acceptable for street reliability. Anything more is power wasted trying to turn an unnecessarily oversized and overpressured pump. Unless you have an application specific need for more pressure, 50-60 psi MAX is plenty for a moderately build streetable engine that will never see the high side of 5500 rpm.
Although the filter may be able to handle 80 psi safely, there is no need for that kind of pressure in a mild street engine with a max RPM of 6000 or less. Again, it's lost HP. Although street myth dictates More Pressure and More Volume, in reality you want to run as little pressure and volume as possible while still maintaining reliability and not banging parts. This minimizes parasitic power lossess and reduces stress on the oil pump parts and associated pump driveline assemblies (like cams and drive gears).
Brad
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To make a point: With that big of a pump & that little of pressure something is wrong. If you put a stock one in you would have virtualy no oil psi.I would tear this engine down before something gets damaged.
Last edited by mark a.; Jul 14, 2004 at 06:11 PM.
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I think you are confusing volume with pressure. Sure, the hi-vo pump will move a larger volume of oil, but the maximum oil pressure is controlled by other things - primarily the bypass spring. Low RPM pressure is more a function of volume.
If there's enough volume to maintain 15-20 psi at a low idle (say 700-800 RPM) then I would not be concerned. I've seen stock applications run as little as 10 psi at 600 rpm idle and it's not uncommon to see an "idiot light" setup that is set to trigger as low as 7-8 psi.
I'm still interested to know what kind of oil is being used and what the pressure reads with a calibrated guage. If it's taking straight 50 weight to maintain pressure, then I'd be concerned. If it's making the above numbers with good old 10w-30 then everything should be just fine.
Brad
If there's enough volume to maintain 15-20 psi at a low idle (say 700-800 RPM) then I would not be concerned. I've seen stock applications run as little as 10 psi at 600 rpm idle and it's not uncommon to see an "idiot light" setup that is set to trigger as low as 7-8 psi.
I'm still interested to know what kind of oil is being used and what the pressure reads with a calibrated guage. If it's taking straight 50 weight to maintain pressure, then I'd be concerned. If it's making the above numbers with good old 10w-30 then everything should be just fine.
Brad
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Also make sure you have the right sender for your guage. An 80# sender on a 60# guage will make it read low. I thing you have plenty of pressure for your app, but it wouldn't hurt to make sure that everything else is up to snuff.
Brad
Brad
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