Oil Group
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From: S/C Texas
Oil Group
I have searched threads here, threads elswhere, and websites as much as I can stand. I'm trying, for my own couriosity, to sort out the groups of oils. I have a pretty good grasp on oils and their groups. But I've only heard one oil (Delo) referred to as a group II oil. Are there more of these group II oils out there. I was wondering if anyone has compiled or found a listing of specific oils and the specifics groups those oils fall into.
Oh, and what makes a group II oil a group II oil. Like hydrocracking makes a group I a group III, but we skipped II.
Hope I havent confused anyone more than I confused myself.
Thanks for helpin out.
Oh, and what makes a group II oil a group II oil. Like hydrocracking makes a group I a group III, but we skipped II.
Hope I havent confused anyone more than I confused myself.
Thanks for helpin out.
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Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Mansfield, TX USA
It has to do with volatility and viscosity index mostly. These are affected by the amount of wax in the oil. Solvent refining (Group I) does not get out as much wax as hydrocracking (Group II and III). Group III's are dewaxed under higher temps and pressures, which gets out more wax.
Of course PAOs (Group IV) are constructed and have no wax.
Here are some Group II specs
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._typical.shtml
Benefits explained here:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._perform.shtml
Here are some Group III specs:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._typical.shtml
Benefits explained here:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._perform.shtml
Of course PAOs (Group IV) are constructed and have no wax.
Here are some Group II specs
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._typical.shtml
Benefits explained here:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._perform.shtml
Here are some Group III specs:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._typical.shtml
Benefits explained here:
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._perform.shtml
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I guess if I print those off and stare at them for a long time over some Pink Floyd....I might understand it.
So really, its just a matter of removing wax. Therefore the overall numbers are better? Are all Chevron oils Group II?
I've gathered as many numbers as I could find.
Mobil, Chevron, Shell all have numbers within just a few of each other in both dino and sythetic, seperatly ofcourse.
Although I must admit Chevron lists much more in numbers than any other company.
So really, its just a matter of removing wax. Therefore the overall numbers are better? Are all Chevron oils Group II?
I've gathered as many numbers as I could find.
Mobil, Chevron, Shell all have numbers within just a few of each other in both dino and sythetic, seperatly ofcourse.
Although I must admit Chevron lists much more in numbers than any other company.
Logistics Pro
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From: Mansfield, TX USA
Originally Posted by peppy
I guess if I print those off and stare at them for a long time over some Pink Floyd....I might understand it.
So really, its just a matter of removing wax.
So really, its just a matter of removing wax.
As you can see from the website, you can make a Group I behave about as good as a Group II with the proper additives. Chevron's pitch is that its cheaper just to start out with a Group II.
Are all Chevron oils Group II?
I saw a report in Lube Reports about new solvent refining techniques that get Group I's so clean, they rival even Group II's and Group III's
I've gathered as many numbers as I could find.
Mobil, Chevron, Shell all have numbers within just a few of each other in both dino and sythetic, seperatly ofcourse.
Although I must admit Chevron lists much more in numbers than any other company.
Mobil, Chevron, Shell all have numbers within just a few of each other in both dino and sythetic, seperatly ofcourse.
Although I must admit Chevron lists much more in numbers than any other company.
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I do believe I am gonna cover my dart board in little tags with oil brands printed on em. Then I'm gonna throw a dart, eyes closed, and go with that oil. Seems to be about the best educated guess I could make. Yea, I'll warn everyone first. 
Tomorrow morning, I take my wifes car for its first oil change. My hands are in the air whether to go Mobil 1, Mobil, Chevron Supreme, or Chevron Synthetic.
VI Flash Ash Zinc
Mobil 1 147 244c 1.2 ?
Chev Syn 146 249c 1.11 .128
Shell Syn ? 228c ? ?
Mobil 134 200c ? ?
Chev Sup 135 232c 0.9 .103
Shell 138 221c ? ?
Exxon 138 228 .74 ?
Just a few numbers I got off each ones site.
It truely seems like a shot in the dark.
I do want to go synthetic, but I am a tight wad, and dont see the big advantage to running synthetic in a car with 110,000 mile warranty. Yea, it has a 4 cyl DOHC, and will drive in hot south Texas heat in traffic. But does it really matter?
Tomorrow morning, I take my wifes car for its first oil change. My hands are in the air whether to go Mobil 1, Mobil, Chevron Supreme, or Chevron Synthetic.
VI Flash Ash Zinc
Mobil 1 147 244c 1.2 ?
Chev Syn 146 249c 1.11 .128
Shell Syn ? 228c ? ?
Mobil 134 200c ? ?
Chev Sup 135 232c 0.9 .103
Shell 138 221c ? ?
Exxon 138 228 .74 ?
Just a few numbers I got off each ones site.
It truely seems like a shot in the dark.
I do want to go synthetic, but I am a tight wad, and dont see the big advantage to running synthetic in a car with 110,000 mile warranty. Yea, it has a 4 cyl DOHC, and will drive in hot south Texas heat in traffic. But does it really matter?
Last edited by peppy; Jun 8, 2004 at 06:39 PM.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Mansfield, TX USA
Originally Posted by peppy
I do want to go synthetic, but I am a tight wad, and dont see the big advantage to running synthetic in a car with 110,000 mile warranty. Yea, it has a 4 cyl DOHC, and will drive in hot south Texas heat in traffic. But does it really matter?
Either that or diesel 15w-40 dino.
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I think KIA would shoot me for putting in 15w40. I could get away with a diesel rated 10w30. But I think 15w40 in a car with less than a thousand miles on it might get me looked in an odd unapproving kinda way.
My consumer confidence isnt to high with walyworld brand items. I'm sure its a good enough oil...but I dont trust the WalMart world of money misers to keep it honest. Not that I really trust too many corporate giants anyway.
I'm afraid its Chevron or Mobil. Since all Chevron is group II.....I feel a sway.
My consumer confidence isnt to high with walyworld brand items. I'm sure its a good enough oil...but I dont trust the WalMart world of money misers to keep it honest. Not that I really trust too many corporate giants anyway.
I'm afraid its Chevron or Mobil. Since all Chevron is group II.....I feel a sway.
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BTW, the same hydroisomerization process yields both Group II and Group III lubricant. Group III is just run under higher temperature and consumes more hydrogen in the process. It will also yield slightly less product per barrel of feedstock because some is consumed in the process. (As does Group II.) That's why excess hydrogen is used in the process, to keep the catalyst from coking.
That's why I'm such a big fan of Group II dino oil, it's basicly the same stuff as Group III synthetic with only a lower Viscosity Index.
That's why I'm such a big fan of Group II dino oil, it's basicly the same stuff as Group III synthetic with only a lower Viscosity Index.
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Originally Posted by peppy
I do want to go synthetic, but I am a tight wad, and dont see the big advantage to running synthetic in a car with 110,000 mile warranty. Yea, it has a 4 cyl DOHC, and will drive in hot south Texas heat in traffic. But does it really matter?
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Actually the manual states over 100 degree temps and use 30w 40w or 10w40, and something else even thicker. The Mobil 1 website states the car requires 10w40 above 87 *. The manual also states 10w30 is good to zero. We certainly break a 100, and hope we never go below zero.....so I'm going with the 10w30, never a doubt in my mind......and I guess its the Group II Chevron Supreme or Delo in 10w30.
The only thing left leaning me over to Mobil 1 is the fact that highway speeds (75-80mph) can produce 4k rpms in this 4 cylinder DOHC. To me, thats alot of abuse going on in the valve train.
I plan on driving this thing from S/C Texas, to Cincinnati, to Maryland, and back again mid-July. Thats alot of high rpms for a long time in some decent heat. Sure cant afford to drive my truck all that way......Round trip we're looking at about 4,000 miles. At 12 mpg........$475 for my truck........$235 for the car. Anyway....way off topic.
The only thing left leaning me over to Mobil 1 is the fact that highway speeds (75-80mph) can produce 4k rpms in this 4 cylinder DOHC. To me, thats alot of abuse going on in the valve train.
I plan on driving this thing from S/C Texas, to Cincinnati, to Maryland, and back again mid-July. Thats alot of high rpms for a long time in some decent heat. Sure cant afford to drive my truck all that way......Round trip we're looking at about 4,000 miles. At 12 mpg........$475 for my truck........$235 for the car. Anyway....way off topic.
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So I have decided the oil for the wifes new car. I had no idea I would have such a interesting time with this. Seems the more I learn, the more questions I have, and the more things I notice.
Oh yea, the oil. As for comparing as much data as I could find....not that I know what it all means. But it appears to me, that the best oil to fit my quest, that I like......to cover the wear, the heat, and the high rpms....is the Delo 10w30
Delo has a higher VI than Mobil 1....147 where Delo is 150 VI Flash point, Mobil 1 is 244*c where is Delo is not too far behind at 226*c. Mobil lists no base numbers or contents. I'm sorry, Mobil 1 does list ash% at 1.2 Delo lists ash at 1.34, Zinc at 0.14, Phosohorus at 0.126, and a base number of 10.1 It may be group II vs group III or IV, but it also less than 1/2 the price.
I have been sold.
Oh yea, the oil. As for comparing as much data as I could find....not that I know what it all means. But it appears to me, that the best oil to fit my quest, that I like......to cover the wear, the heat, and the high rpms....is the Delo 10w30
Delo has a higher VI than Mobil 1....147 where Delo is 150 VI Flash point, Mobil 1 is 244*c where is Delo is not too far behind at 226*c. Mobil lists no base numbers or contents. I'm sorry, Mobil 1 does list ash% at 1.2 Delo lists ash at 1.34, Zinc at 0.14, Phosohorus at 0.126, and a base number of 10.1 It may be group II vs group III or IV, but it also less than 1/2 the price.
I have been sold.
Last edited by peppy; Jun 11, 2004 at 11:42 PM.
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GGRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! So here I have spent one week trying to find Delo 10w30. No luck. I've been to most every truck stop in 30 miles. Called my friend who works for a Chevron distributor. No one carries Delo 10w30 in anything smaller than multi gallon drums. It would appear that its not available in gallons or quarts. I'm still on the hunt, but it doesnt look good. Nope, no response as of yet from Chevron.
Let ya know.
Oh, I did get the first change for free last week. Today I drained it out and put in M1 10w30. The engine runs and sounds smoother. Its power band seems to be 3k thru 4 1/2k rpms.......it sounds much healthier with the All-climate out and the M1 in.
Let ya know.
Oh, I did get the first change for free last week. Today I drained it out and put in M1 10w30. The engine runs and sounds smoother. Its power band seems to be 3k thru 4 1/2k rpms.......it sounds much healthier with the All-climate out and the M1 in.
Last edited by peppy; Jun 18, 2004 at 11:49 PM.
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It just depends on your OCI in combination with what has already been discussed. Personally, if I can get 8 micron filtering with the Canton filter, and use a 5W-30 with a TBN >12, flash point >457, fire point >482, HT/HS >3.5, Kinematic Viscosity 11.5 (100 degrees C) AND get good numbers from Blackstone THEN I can pull my travel trailer in AZ in the summer, AND still change oil once per year. This puts less used oil back into the environment.
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