Oil Group
 

I have searched threads here, threads elswhere, and websites as much as I can stand. I'm trying, for my own couriosity, to sort out the groups of oils. I have a pretty good grasp on oils and their groups. But I've only heard one oil (Delo) referred to as a group II oil. Are there more of these group II oils out there. I was wondering if anyone has compiled or found a listing of specific oils and the specifics groups those oils fall into.
Oh, and what makes a group II oil a group II oil. Like hydrocracking makes a group I a group III, but we skipped II. :-huh
Hope I havent confused anyone more than I confused myself. :-blah
Thanks for helpin out. :-rip

It has to do with volatility and viscosity index mostly. These are affected by the amount of wax in the oil. Solvent refining (Group I) does not get out as much wax as hydrocracking (Group II and III). Group III's are dewaxed under higher temps and pressures, which gets out more wax.

Of course PAOs (Group IV) are constructed and have no wax.

Here are some Group II specs

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._typical.shtml

Benefits explained here:

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._perform.shtml

Here are some Group III specs:

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._typical.shtml

Benefits explained here:

http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/Base..._perform.shtml

I guess if I print those off and stare at them for a long time over some Pink Floyd....I might understand it.

So really, its just a matter of removing wax. Therefore the overall numbers are better? Are all Chevron oils Group II?

I've gathered as many numbers as I could find.

Mobil, Chevron, Shell all have numbers within just a few of each other in both dino and sythetic, seperatly ofcourse.

Although I must admit Chevron lists much more in numbers than any other company.

I think that it is a little more complicated than that. The refining also removes the more volatile companents as well.

As you can see from the website, you can make a Group I behave about as good as a Group II with the proper additives. Chevron's pitch is that its cheaper just to start out with a Group II.

That's all Chevron sells as a base oil, but they could buy a Group I from someone else.

I saw a report in Lube Reports about new solvent refining techniques that get Group I's so clean, they rival even Group II's and Group III's

Numbers are great for making a first cut, but you really have to do a head to head comparison, long term. Only the CR oil report has even attempted to do this. Far too expensive. All the oils are too good. Hard for any oil blender to show significantly better results, so why spend $$millions$$ to run a comparative test?

I do believe I am gonna cover my dart board in little tags with oil brands printed on em. Then I'm gonna throw a dart, eyes closed, and go with that oil. Seems to be about the best educated guess I could make. Yea, I'll warn everyone first. :-hair

Tomorrow morning, I take my wifes car for its first oil change. My hands are in the air whether to go Mobil 1, Mobil, Chevron Supreme, or Chevron Synthetic. 8D
VI Flash Ash Zinc
Mobil 1 147 244c 1.2 ?
Chev Syn 146 249c 1.11 .128
Shell Syn ? 228c ? ?

Mobil 134 200c ? ?
Chev Sup 135 232c 0.9 .103
Shell 138 221c ? ?
Exxon 138 228 .74 ?


Just a few numbers I got off each ones site.


It truely seems like a shot in the dark. :rolleyes:

I do want to go synthetic, but I am a tight wad, and dont see the big advantage to running synthetic in a car with 110,000 mile warranty. Yea, it has a 4 cyl DOHC, and will drive in hot south Texas heat in traffic. But does it really matter?

Probably not, but why not go for Wally ST syn? <$3/qt.

Either that or diesel 15w-40 dino.

I think KIA would shoot me for putting in 15w40. I could get away with a diesel rated 10w30. But I think 15w40 in a car with less than a thousand miles on it might get me looked in an odd unapproving kinda way.
My consumer confidence isnt to high with walyworld brand items. I'm sure its a good enough oil...but I dont trust the WalMart world of money misers to keep it honest. Not that I really trust too many corporate giants anyway.

I'm afraid its Chevron or Mobil. Since all Chevron is group II.....I feel a sway. :-X16

BTW, the same hydroisomerization process yields both Group II and Group III lubricant. Group III is just run under higher temperature and consumes more hydrogen in the process. It will also yield slightly less product per barrel of feedstock because some is consumed in the process. (As does Group II.) That's why excess hydrogen is used in the process, to keep the catalyst from coking.

That's why I'm such a big fan of Group II dino oil, it's basicly the same stuff as Group III synthetic with only a lower Viscosity Index.

Honestly I think you’re worrying to much. I’m sure cars live long lives running the recommended oils down there in Texas. There is no way you could go wrong picking Chevron or Mobil 1 or even something cheaper like NAPA synthetic. They all are plenty capable of doing the job. Chevron is excellent oil at a great price and it would be my choice. I would also buy the recommended weight of oil since you are planning on having the dealer do the work and you supply the oil. They might refuse to put in 10W40 or 15W40 diesel oil

Actually the manual states over 100 degree temps and use 30w 40w or 10w40, and something else even thicker. The Mobil 1 website states the car requires 10w40 above 87 *. The manual also states 10w30 is good to zero. We certainly break a 100, and hope we never go below zero.....so I'm going with the 10w30, never a doubt in my mind......and I guess its the Group II Chevron Supreme or Delo in 10w30.
The only thing left leaning me over to Mobil 1 is the fact that highway speeds (75-80mph) can produce 4k rpms in this 4 cylinder DOHC. To me, thats alot of abuse going on in the valve train.
I plan on driving this thing from S/C Texas, to Cincinnati, to Maryland, and back again mid-July. Thats alot of high rpms for a long time in some decent heat. Sure cant afford to drive my truck all that way......Round trip we're looking at about 4,000 miles. At 12 mpg........$475 for my truck........$235 for the car. Anyway....way off topic.

So I have decided the oil for the wifes new car. I had no idea I would have such a interesting time with this. Seems the more I learn, the more questions I have, and the more things I notice.
Oh yea, the oil. As for comparing as much data as I could find....not that I know what it all means. But it appears to me, that the best oil to fit my quest, that I like......to cover the wear, the heat, and the high rpms....is the Delo 10w30
Delo has a higher VI than Mobil 1....147 where Delo is 150 VI Flash point, Mobil 1 is 244*c where is Delo is not too far behind at 226*c. Mobil lists no base numbers or contents. I'm sorry, Mobil 1 does list ash% at 1.2 Delo lists ash at 1.34, Zinc at 0.14, Phosohorus at 0.126, and a base number of 10.1 It may be group II vs group III or IV, but it also less than 1/2 the price.
I have been sold. :-X22

I think you've made a good decision. :-X22

GGRRRRRRR!!!!!!!! So here I have spent one week trying to find Delo 10w30. No luck. I've been to most every truck stop in 30 miles. Called my friend who works for a Chevron distributor. No one carries Delo 10w30 in anything smaller than multi gallon drums. It would appear that its not available in gallons or quarts. I'm still on the hunt, but it doesnt look good. Nope, no response as of yet from Chevron.
Let ya know.

Oh, I did get the first change for free last week. Today I drained it out and put in M1 10w30. The engine runs and sounds smoother. Its power band seems to be 3k thru 4 1/2k rpms.......it sounds much healthier with the All-climate out and the M1 in.

It just depends on your OCI in combination with what has already been discussed. Personally, if I can get 8 micron filtering with the Canton filter, and use a 5W-30 with a TBN >12, flash point >457, fire point >482, HT/HS >3.5, Kinematic Viscosity 11.5 (100 degrees C) AND get good numbers from Blackstone THEN I can pull my travel trailer in AZ in the summer, AND still change oil once per year. This puts less used oil back into the environment.