Titan 3.36 rear 1. 3.827 2. 2.368 3. 1.52 4. 1.00 5. .834

F-150 3.55 or 3.73 rear 1. 2.84 2. 1.55 3. 1.00 4. .7

Ideal gearing helps, but the engine still does most of the work.

 

Ford, GM and Toy has 4 speeds, the ram is a 5 speed but is just a kickdown gear, really does not play in acceleration testing.
5 low gears + less weight =more performance. Not to take anything away from the nissian, but wait until the big three come out with their 5 and 6 speed trannies, then nissian will be left in the same position as the toyota. How much talk did we have to put up with from that bunch when the tundra first came out.

 

I hope you are right about Nissan and Toyota not making a dent in the Truck market in the USA. However, if the Big three let them build a better vehicle, they will make huge dents in it. They caught the big three asleep in the 70's and 80' s in the light truck and car market. I hope the big three wont make the same mistake twice. Maybe they learned their lesson. You have to admit, Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler were building some junk in the late 70's and early 80's. The Japanese, at the time, built a better mouse trap and gained huge market share. I dont think it will happen this time because the competition is already so fierce among the big three. Whether you like them or not, I think everyone would have to admit that Diamler is mostly responsible for this competition. They are pushing the R & D envelope and forcing Ford and Chevy to do the same. They have brought German technology to Dodge, which I think is a good thing. Ford is supposedly building the Hurricane. Chevy is supposed to have don som killer modifications on the LT1. I think it is safe to say Diamler is responsible for both those things happening. I like it when Ford has the best engine this year, then Chrysler one ups them, then Chevy. As long as this is happening, it is good for the consumer. We get new technology we would have otherwise not had. I look forward to the GTO going way up on H.P. Ford will have to do something to match it. Maybe then the mustang will again be a true muscle car; something it has not been since the early 70's.

 

Heyga302p You make some good comments in your post. Ill have to disagree withnyou on 1 thing. You said the mustang wasnt a true musclecar since the 70s The late 80s and early 90s mustangs were some really fast cars with the 5.0 engine. Id have to qualify that as a muslecar in my book. To me we dont need a Hemi or a Hurricane. We have enough power as is. Stupid dodge. There truck days are numbered in my book. You can fool some people some of the time but you cant fool all the people all the time.

 

Hey FRECSF, yes, the five speed may make a difference. Thanks, Lectrocuted for giving us the gear ratios.

To get the whole picture, you have to look at a combination of factors. Horsepower and torque, gear ratios, tire size, and even vehicle weight. The Nissan is making its numbers on big 33 inch tall tires. I think everyone else is running 31's.

You have to multiply the final drive ratio times the ratio in each gear to get the effective gear ratio and then consider tire size.

The only thing I could find which might help is the Car and Driver, April '04 data on SUV's - all 4WD. I don't know if the pickups are exactly the same.

Car and Driver published a chart with miles per hour per 1000 rpm for each gear for the 5 SUV's they tested. I'll just post the Exedition 5.4 (3.73 diffs), Durango Hemi (3.92 diffs) and Nissan Armada (3.36 diffs).

The lower each number below is in mph, the lower the total combined gearing is for each gear. So, for these purposes, lower is better for pulling power and acceleration, but worse for fuel mileage.

Expedition:
8.6-15.7-23.4-34.8 mph/1000 rpm

Durango:
7.5-13.4-22.4-29.8-33.4 mph/1000 rpm

Armada:
7.3-11.8-18.3-27.9-33.4 mpy/1000 rpm

My view of these numbers is that, indeed the Dodge and Nissan are geared lower, when the combined effect of transmission, rearend and tires are considered.

There is one additional factor: vehicle weight, assuming all would be carrying the same payload or pulling the same trailer. The Dodge Durango is much lighter than the other SUV's almost 500 lbs lighter than the Chevy and Ford and 200 lbs lighter than the Nissan, so Dodge starts out with a big advantage in the SUV and Ford and Chevy with a pretty significant weight penalty. Then the Dodge is smaller than the competition.

In 1/2 ton 4X4 pickups it is a little different: the weight the Dodge and Nissan are the same, the Ford is 300 lbs heavier. Incidentally, the Chevy weighs the same as the Dodge and Nissan.

So, FRECSF, you are right. The total ratios are lower in both the Dodge Hemi and the Nissan, which is even lower yet

My conclusion is that when Ford bumps up the horsepower, (I hope soon) it should, indeed, go to a 5 speed, and work for a more competitive mph/1000 rpm ratio in each gear. It might also want to go on a diet.

I'm here because I love Fords and want the current models to get better. Just one guy's opinion.

 

Lets see, gas is going for $2.25 a gallon and manufactuerers are going for 400 HP.

Were any of you here in the '70s? You might want to read what happened then in your history books to muscle cars.

 

In the lower gears, the nissian is about 3% lower than the dodge. The high gear may be closer but other gears are showing about 3% difference.

 

What you are failing to take into account is that Diamler is incorporating it new generation of engine management, currently found on Mercedes. The new Hemi will get better gas mileage at 400 hp than the old one at 345, under normal driving conditions. It will still suck the fuel at wide open throttle. The system works, it is on the Mercedes audobon cars in Germany.

 

Gearing is more important than the engine when it comes to two things. Acceleration tests (ask any drag racer) and pulling (ever hear of a granny gear). Even the old Ford trucks with the 300ci 6 cylinder and granny gears could pull like you wouldn't believe. That wasn't a torque monster motor either. I just love it when Car and Driver runs a test and says so and so is quicker in the quarter mile, then you look and the loser has 3.55 gears, and the winner has 4.10's. If you are looking for apples to apples comparisons, looking to mags like C&D is the last place to go. Those guys are more worried about their advertisement money than anything. I can't tell you how many crap cars they have said were great (when everyone knew they sucked), then turn about 15 pages more in the mag and see a BIG full page ad for that same junker.....Nothing like these guys and Motor Trend ehh....Love their truck of the year award don't you (Even though the Ford F150 won for 2004)....Not every truck is considered in it, the rules state "As with our Car and Sport/Utility of the Year deliberations, the rules governing Truck of the Year are simple: Eligible trucks must be all-new or significantly revised and on sale to the public by January 1, 2004. Test units must be available for us to conduct our extensive battery of performance tests and over-the-road evaluations." Gotta love that don't you...So if a manufacture doesn't make an all new vehicle or enough revisions it doesn't qualify for the contest....What a joke, it doesn't matter how good of a vehicle it is, it won't win. So you have other vehicles that may be lesser vehicles vying for the title of X of the year!!! JOKE!!!!
Bottom line I am a Ford guy, always have been always will....90% of my vehicles have been Fords, 100% of my future vehicles will be Fords. It takes all kinds and competition IS GOOD! Most of the trucks you buy today regardless of the manufacturer are good vehicles. There will always be lemons or troubled vehicles, it doesn't matter who makes them. Enjoy what you like and don't be so hard on others that don't agree. I love reading this stuff, and even joining in once in a while, just remember to keep it civil and enjoy the new horsepower wars

 

Hey ga302p. You make a good point. A friend of mine has a new Chrysler 300C with the Hemi engine. It must have that German technology, but the truck engine does not. The computer measures engine load and selectively shuts off fuel and spark to every other cylinder under light duty situations. It works seamlessly - you never know when it is on or off. But push the go pedal on that sucker and it moves. He's getting 20-22 mpg on the highway, or so he says. The 300C is a big car, weighing about 4000 lbs, but not nearly as heavy as a full-size truck by at least 1000-1500 lbs, however. And trucks, at least real trucks, carry loads and pull trailers, so I question whether that technology would work in trucks. I'd like to see them put one in the 1/2 ton Dodge Hemi, but with a button on the dash were it could be turned off. Even then, I think real truck use would override it automatically or make the driver turn it off manually. Let Dodge to the testing. If it works, we can all jump on board. Just my opinion.

 

I think Dodges biggest challenge for the new hemi's will be in maintaining emissions...That has always been the only shortcoming of a true hemi design. The current design is a slight compromise of that design to help with that and other things. They will need to offer that new engine management system soon on most of their lineup. At the rate they are installing the hemi into every make and model they make, they will need it to meet CAFE.

 

I think, that this is a great thing for ford. The 5.4 is just too small to compete againsed the 6.0 sized engines.

As to the 5.4 Vs. hemi thing, the current 5.4 2V or 3V (not the 24V or the supercharged) has nothing on the current hemi. It barly out torques the hemi before 1000 rpm, and never bests it above that all the way to redline. Don't believe me, search on this forum, the dyno graphs have already been posted. And I am not biased, i own a 5.4 powered f250, and I like it a lot.

As to the hemi being a gas hog, so is the 5.4. My truck eats lots of fuel. You can probably watch the fuel guage go down.

 

I wasn't trying to say the Hemi is so much of a gas hog. I was trying to make the point, that they are putting the hemi in EVERYTHING Cars, trucks etc... Usually car companies that have larger performance engines also have a butt load of smaller economy cars to help offset the poorer mileage from teh big boys. This helps them meet the CAFE requirements. Thats why Automakers like to make the little cars too. Not only is there a market, but it helps average out the overall MPG they need.
Peace....

 

The Hemi has two sparkplugs per cylinder to help with combustion/emissions problems. Almost flat top pistons instead of domes. 1 problem solved. They made a good sized leap in fuel mileage with the cyl. deactivation system. I wonder if it could be applied to a diesel?

 

92f150,
The torque thing has NOT been shown in any threads. The only way people have come up with those numbers is using Ford's and Dodge's literature about obtaining a certain percentage of torque by a certain RPM. There have been no posts of the torque curves to prove this.