Hi,

I haven't spent much time on this site yet but some of the threads have some good info and I have a questions for those of you with some structural experience. I just bought a house that is about 40 yrs old in the Chicago area and it is a raised ranch with a 2 car garage. There are bedrooms over this attached garage. There is no support beams within the garage which is nice but there is one between the 2 separate garage doors. The problem is that beam is actually sinking and has dropped I am guessing about 2". This caused some drywall cracks and even a window crack in the room above. It doesn't look like the support is on the foundation but on the driveway so that is why I think it is sinking. This is one of the oldest houses in my area and my parents have the same type just a mile from me that is a few years newer and their support is on the foundation. I figure the easiest, cheapest, and actually best way to do this is to just elliminate that support all together and put in a double door. Obviously that requires a beefier header for the house which would have to span about 20'. What do you guys suggest I use for this beam and does anyone have recommendations for how to figure out how to fix this. I want to do as much of this as possible to save money. If needed I can post pics but don't want to waste the time if there isn't much feedback. Thanks much.

 

Sorry, not a easy fix to this one. First of all, you really need to get a home inspector or structural engineer to look at what is supporting the load above to be safe about it. The notion of removing the two doors and going with a single 20 footer will be a major cost, because the whole weight of the gable end of the house would then be transferred to one long header, rather than two ten foot ones , which means it will need a 21 ft steel girder or a pre-enginnered truss beam put in, both expensive and a lot of demo work to get it put in and finished back.
The simplest solution would be to cut out the drywall in the ceiling between the two doors and see what is supporting the floor above and make a new support for it. Most likely it will be a 4in square steel post sitting on the floor holding the span beam up. If that post is in fact pushing thru the floor, that will mean there was not a support pier poured below the floor for the support post to sit on. With a support system carrying a two bedroom structure above, it needed a 24 in square by 12 in deep concrete pier poured below frostline, for it. To me , a easy (not really easy, but least expensive) solution would be, find the support post, build temporary support walls to hold the load above, saw out the caving in floor where the support post will sit, and put in a pier for it as mentioned above. Then the structure will need to be slowly jacked up on even pressure points till level again, then nstall the new support post. It is a job for a experienced tradesperson, thats just my opinion, but I restate, get a pro inspection/opinion at least, a two bedroom live load is nothing to take lightly, no pun intended good luck

 

I knew this was going to be a substantial job. The home inspector actually caught it before I bought the house so I was able to negotiate another $2,000 off the price of the home from what I had a contract on. I know that won't cover it as a big insulated garage door of 16 or 18 foot will probably cost half that (I have no idea really). The footing is actually sinking so that is why I was thinking of just going across the entire span as that would relieve the problem of a new footing. I figured I'd have to get something like a steel H-beam of maybe 10" but I have no engineering basis for that assumption. Just yesterday I pulled off some covering around the ducting that runs through the garage. It goes right through the middle and sticks down a good 1/2 ft. There is a big metal beam in there so if that can support the load of 3 bedrooms above it in the middle of the house I would think I could do something similar for the header. I will have to take down some drywall to get a better idea. Maybe I will end up farming out the structural job and just hanging the garage door and whatever else is simple. I just want to do as much of it as possible as none of this is rocket science and with adequate research, some common sense, and being a descent craftsman anyone should be able to pick this stuff up. I will hopefully save money and learn something in the process. Heck, as a teenager I built an experimental airplane that my dad still flies today. This is just another big undertaking that can be done.
I was also looking at this project as far as potential goes. I think someone already hacked this garage door system because the height is more than all the other houses in the area and it has 7' doors that don't seal nearly right when all the other doors on houses around here are 6.5'. It would be nice to store my expy in there as I plan on keeping it a long time and it just fits now where it wouldn't on most houses. The only problem is that I have to fold in the mirrors and a big garage door would fix that problem. I am just trying to make the most of this.
If anyone happens to know a good company in the Chicago area or knows a good place for me to study up on this (websites, etc) I'd like to know.

 

I don't have a closeup now but check my gallary for a picture of the front of the house to see what I am looking at. You can maybe see some of the crimple of the aluminum siding.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43596&width=2

 

I've done the fix that Greg described. It's not that hard a job and far cheaper than a new load bearing header.

Here's a good link for foundations: http://www.donpearman.com/construction/

 

In Chicago there actually should have been a footer with at least a 3' tall wall on top of it under the garage floor. The wall and footing depth is determined by the local frost depth. Check with the building codes in the area. IMO it will cost a lot more that $2000 to get it fixed. Check with several foundation repair companies. You probably don't want to accept the lowest bid either.

I have had good luck so far with permits and have appreciated the inspectors help. That may change with my next project.

 

I am not quite sure what you mean by the 3' tall wall but I'd like to know if the builders screwed this up originally. That support that you see in between the 2 garage doors rests upon the driveway from what I can see. The house is slab foundation and it is not resting on the garage floor which I assume is the end of the slab. My knowledge of how this was supposed to be built isn't good so I will hopefully be able to get some pictures up tonight after work if it is still light so that hopefully someone can give more feedback on my exact circumstances.
If you guys were in my spot what would you do? Should I look to call a structural engineer, a construction company that specializes in things like room additions (as they deal with structures), or talk to the township first? I am not quite sure where to start.
Thanks.

 

What Eric is trying to describe would be under the pad of your driveway. When you build, you have to dig down lower than what the frost level is, so water can't freeze under it. If code in your area requires the footer to be 4 foot down, you would dig down 4 feet, compact and pour a "footer" to support the weight of your house. This might consist of a pad 16" or 24" wide and 12" thick,(again, depends on your code.) This goes all the way around your house. Since you don't need a wall as thick as your footer to go all the way up to where your framed walls start, they just pour a thinner wall on top of the footer. Looks like an inverted "T".

If you don't have big cracks in the brickwork around the rest of the house I would imagine they did that part right, especially if the inspecter just noted the sag at the garage.

I'm curious to how you neighbors garages are set up - 1 or 2 door? What I'm thinking is when they built the house they built the footer, but for some reason didn't pour a pad under where that garage support would be. (Normally, you don't pour a footer where the garage opening is, the force is absorbed by the header - unless there is a support post like you have.) They might have started building a garage with one door and not poured the pad, then the plans got changed to two doors. Just speculation, but I've seen stranger things happen. I'm not sure you could go after the original contractor on a 40 year old house and you did close with the problem noted. $2000 might get the repair done, but I doubt it would cover a new door, too..

You have lots of options. Some larger remodel contractors are set up to do this kind of work. If it was me and wasn't sure I could do the work myself, I'd probably call up a foundation contractor and ask for a quote. If they are local and have done foundation repairs, they might have seen this happen before in your area and know just what to do.

 

My house was the 2nd one built in the subdivision so it is entirely possible that they screwed it up. Like I mentioned before my parents house is newer (about 7 yrs) and their support holding the header up by the garage is on the foundation. I am not sure if I am using the right terminology so the support is actually resting upon the garage floor right behind where the door closes. Mine on the other hand is in front of the door and on the driveway. I cannot see if there is a special footer at that spot on the driveway until I tear off some siding and trim around it probably this weekend. I will also tear out some drywall on the ceiling to get a good view of the header. I'll post some close ups soon.

 

Ok here are some links to the new pictures in my gallery...
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43631&width=2
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43633&width=2
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43634&width=2
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43635&width=2
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43636&width=2
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43637&width=2
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=43638&width=2

 

You could go with the large I-beam across the whole span. But you have to remember you are taking the load of that section of the house, and transferring it to either side of the garage. So it won't be a simple thing of putting the I-beam in place. You will have to beef up some columns on either side to hold the ends of the I-beam, and you may even have to beef up the footer under each end if it looks to be not very substantial. So this may mean tearing into either side of the garage opening, and adding vertical 2x4's side by side to support the ends of the I-beam.

As far as more door height, an I-beam will make it worse, unless you take out the existing header. To do that, I would think you would need to take two or three pieces of siding off the second floor, get a bunch of 2x4's, and like someone else said, build a temporary wall on 16 inch centers that will set on the driveway, and actually nail into the side of the second floor where the siding was(after you jack the second floor back to level). Then you can take the old dual header/center beam out, and hurry up and put the I-beam in.

This is a lot of work for anyone. And labor is not cheap if you pay someone else to do it. But I think it could be done.

By far the easiest would be redo the footer on what you have now.

 

After veiwing the pics, I stick with my original post as a sensible cure to lessen further sinkage. The exterior post that is sinking looks to be a add on to help out the original structure from sinking. The new pier will stop the post from sinking more, but will not do anything to cure your header height problem. I see no way to gain more header height unless you lower the whole floor level, and that could be achieved only if the garage floor sits WELL above the grade of the street to prevent water from running in to your garage. And at that, you would have to repour the driveway at least about 15 ft out from the front of the garage to meet the lower elevation. To me, it looks like a "call my realtor and find me a new home/garage that fits me better" scenario, or purchase shorter trucks. sorry for the bluntness, but sometimes ,even in construction/renovations, it pays to start over with a different building.

 

Looks like the support post was just placed on the 3 1/2 to 4 " slab. To keep the post in the same place you could, after doing some supporting, remove the post, break out some of the concrete and go down about 4 ft. and use a cardboard tube and fill it with concrete. Another thought...if you want to get a wider door, can you go to one 10' door and make it a 1 car garage??with room for a snowmobile of course. This would also depend on your header structure.

 

A few more thoughts based on your responses...

The current height of my garage is just enough to fit the expy in so that is fine. If I go all the way across with a steel beam (maybe an H beam) then I will have to make the header about the same size as now which initially appears to be about 8.5". I will tear more out this weekend to tell for sure.
I thought about making it a 10' 1 door before but that would probably make resell much worse as it isn't good for most people and realistically is probably worse for me than 2 doors. I want to make this somewhat future proof so I don't have to rework it again. I could leave the truck outside as it has been for the last year but since I planned on keeping it a long time I figured it would be good to put it inside if possible.
The other side supports do not appear to be sinking but those are also on the driveway. Actually the driveway looks to be cut around it. I don't know what the deal with those supports are. It is infront of that seam where the garage door closes and obviously on the same plane as the center support but it doesn't look to be sitting directly on the driveway. It was a very good point that I have to consider the footings on these as well.
I just bought this house 2 months ago and got a good deal on it for this area (247K) because it needed some work. My neighbor just sold a little 1 car ranch for 255K so I still think I got it for a reasonable price for this location. There is no way I am going to move as I have looked in the area for a couple months prior to buying this and everything around here either has problems or it costs way to much for a 23 yr old to afford. I bought this house on the basis of potential as it has enough room and a big enough lot in a great location. It is on an excellent grade to as I sit at least a full story above the neighbor about 150' behind me. This is my one major job and after this I see it being a great bang for the buck house for me.

 

Hi Dan,

Some good advice has come your way but I'd like to chime in from another angle...

I see over the garage doors that you have a 'cantilever' or over hang, the second floor 'floor joices' stick over your garage wall by 18 to 24 inches, or at least that's the way it looks from the first pick you posted standing near the curb...

Scenario 1, this would make me look at putting in a new header, possibly the 'H' beam of steel you mentioned with new posts on either end, just outside your existing wall...get down to code for your area with the footings for the posts, give'm a couple of weeks to cure then put one end of your new header on the post and carefully 'jack' the other end into place, gently raising the second floor off your existing wall and onto the new beam...

Scenario 2, since your roof trusses or framing are supported on the wall that's sticking out a couple of feet, you could gain that two feet by builing a 'new' wall directly under the existing upstairs wall where those two windows are...everyone could use an extra couple of feet in their garage...and by removing the existing brick/garage doors that's now on your garage wall and moving them to the new outside wall, I don't think you'd loose that much 'curb appeal'...

Like I said, just chiming in from another angle...

Brad