structural problems on attached garage
#61
You would gain about a 1/4 inch of height if you went with a W8x24, but steel prices are pretty crazy right now.
I have garage doors that are the same width yours are and they are oriented the same - on the right side of the house. They've always been too narrow to easily drive anything in, except a compact car. I'm in the garage so much I can tell when a stranger comes over, because they knock on the front door. I've opened the garage door closest to the house so many times, I've have to replace the hardware in it twice in 15 years. Probably gets opened and closed 10 or more time a day. I have a workbench against the wall, just inside the door.
I've often thought of pulling both garage doors out, framing in a 32" door on the house side and an extra wide garage door on the other. I could pull my truck in and someone could actually get out on the passanger side, plus I would have a regular door people could walk through.
With this option: I would have to dig a footer, but it would be under the existing header and I wouldn't have to touch the old support post or the garage doors until I was ready, (close them at night). I could frame a 4 foot wide wall with a 32" door that would allow easy access and I could put in a 12' wide usable garage door and toss those useless 8 footers.
For you, after it's done you could frame around the door with decorative brick to match your existing brickwork, (that's a fun weekend project), and it'll make it blend in well with the rest of the house. Also, with a shorter span of 12' you might be able to gain some height to drive your truck in. You wouldn't need such a massive header and a smaller glulam might be enough.
I have garage doors that are the same width yours are and they are oriented the same - on the right side of the house. They've always been too narrow to easily drive anything in, except a compact car. I'm in the garage so much I can tell when a stranger comes over, because they knock on the front door. I've opened the garage door closest to the house so many times, I've have to replace the hardware in it twice in 15 years. Probably gets opened and closed 10 or more time a day. I have a workbench against the wall, just inside the door.
I've often thought of pulling both garage doors out, framing in a 32" door on the house side and an extra wide garage door on the other. I could pull my truck in and someone could actually get out on the passanger side, plus I would have a regular door people could walk through.
With this option: I would have to dig a footer, but it would be under the existing header and I wouldn't have to touch the old support post or the garage doors until I was ready, (close them at night). I could frame a 4 foot wide wall with a 32" door that would allow easy access and I could put in a 12' wide usable garage door and toss those useless 8 footers.
For you, after it's done you could frame around the door with decorative brick to match your existing brickwork, (that's a fun weekend project), and it'll make it blend in well with the rest of the house. Also, with a shorter span of 12' you might be able to gain some height to drive your truck in. You wouldn't need such a massive header and a smaller glulam might be enough.
Last edited by Howdy; 08-27-2004 at 11:50 PM.
#62
Originally Posted by Howdy
You would gain about a 1/4 inch of height if you went with a W8x24, but steel prices are pretty crazy right now.
I have garage doors that are the same width yours are and they are oriented the same - on the right side of the house. They've always been too narrow to easily drive anything in, except a compact car. I'm in the garage so much I can tell when a stranger comes over, because they knock on the front door. I've opened the garage door closest to the house so many times, I've have to replace the hardware in it twice in 15 years. Probably gets opened and closed 10 or more time a day. I have a workbench against the wall, just inside the door.
I've often thought of pulling both garage doors out, framing in a 32" door on the house side and an extra wide garage door on the other. I could pull my truck in and someone could actually get out on the passanger side, plus I would have a regular door people could walk through.
With this option: I would have to dig a footer, but it would be under the existing header and I wouldn't have to touch the old support post or the garage doors until I was ready, (close them at night). I could frame a 4 foot wide wall with a 32" door that would allow easy access and I could put in a 12' wide usable garage door and toss those useless 8 footers.
For you, after it's done you could frame around the door with decorative brick to match your existing brickwork, (that's a fun weekend project), and it'll make it blend in well with the rest of the house. Also, with a shorter span of 12' you might be able to gain some height to drive your truck in. You wouldn't need such a massive header and a smaller glulam might be enough.
I have garage doors that are the same width yours are and they are oriented the same - on the right side of the house. They've always been too narrow to easily drive anything in, except a compact car. I'm in the garage so much I can tell when a stranger comes over, because they knock on the front door. I've opened the garage door closest to the house so many times, I've have to replace the hardware in it twice in 15 years. Probably gets opened and closed 10 or more time a day. I have a workbench against the wall, just inside the door.
I've often thought of pulling both garage doors out, framing in a 32" door on the house side and an extra wide garage door on the other. I could pull my truck in and someone could actually get out on the passanger side, plus I would have a regular door people could walk through.
With this option: I would have to dig a footer, but it would be under the existing header and I wouldn't have to touch the old support post or the garage doors until I was ready, (close them at night). I could frame a 4 foot wide wall with a 32" door that would allow easy access and I could put in a 12' wide usable garage door and toss those useless 8 footers.
For you, after it's done you could frame around the door with decorative brick to match your existing brickwork, (that's a fun weekend project), and it'll make it blend in well with the rest of the house. Also, with a shorter span of 12' you might be able to gain some height to drive your truck in. You wouldn't need such a massive header and a smaller glulam might be enough.
I think the main disadvantage to this approach is resale value. Most people wouldn't want that setup because the average person (especially where I live) isn't interested in using their garage for anything other than storing their car. I also like to store other things like motorcycles and atv in there. I could still fit them through the side since the door would be bigger than a normal single but it would be less convenient as far as where I could put things in the garage.
I am fairly certain I will just go the steel header route. I got my plans into the village so I hope they get approved without needing an architects stamp. It may cost a bit more than a wood route but the height will be slightly better than now and it will fit in the exact spot without needing masonry work. It is the easiest solution overall and I think using cheaper materials would just require more other work that would end up making it more expensive anyway.
Plans are to have a 18' 2" W8x21 header which is 8.28" deep fit on the masonry wall which has a current depth opening of 8.625" for the ripped down current double 2x10 header. The opening is 16' 8.5" so there will be 9" bearing length on each side. The brick column is a total of about 8" wide so the 5.25" or so flange on the steel will be kept flush with the back and the brick at the front will be split so that it fits and looks the same as now. This brick will keep the header from slipping off the front of the house. Then the 2x6 framing for the garage door will go around the back perimeter and this will keep the header from slipping off the back. I also have masonry bolts where I can drill into the brick and put a bolt through that expands in the hold and keeps the header from slipping laterally.
For a temp wall I will use 2 2x6s laid flat as a double plate header just inside the current door and use 5 adj screw jack columns spaced equally to jack up the wall. I will start raising the wall as soon as the permit is approved. Then I will order the steel header and garage door. Once I get the header I will start working on it by removing the brick in the front of the house which holds the header in. Then I can slide in the new header and do all that work without even touching the garage doors (hopefully). Then I can figure out exactly what framing I want to put in place and order the appropriate custom sized door. Then when the door comes a couple weeks later I can install it.
The header will cost about $400 and the raynor insulated door with windows is about $1300. I should get it done for $2000 and this is the exact credit I was able to work out at the time of purchase on this house because of this problem. It will be better than original when done, cost less than I initially though, and I have certainly learned much. Hopefully the install will go well.
Thanks again for everyones help. I'll post some pictures once done.
#63
#64
Finally It Is Done!!!
Well boys and girls I thank you all very much for your help. I have finally finished this project. Well everything that is a big deal is done at least. I have put a new beam and garage door in along with some electric and other little things. Surprisingly the beam is actually bending a visible amount (3/8" or so) but with the weatherstripping on it isn't very noticeable now. It is a W8x21 beam spaning 16' 8" and is supposed to be rated for 24,000 lbs at 17' span. I don't think it is a problem but I was just surprised to be able to see it bend. It isn't nearly the bend it had before though. I jacked the house up over about a week time and it made some good sized cracks in the drywall in the upstairs bedrooms but when I lowered it back down they closed up a bit. I think this is because it was bending the joists a little weird as they were jacked from inside the exterior wall. I had only 7'8" of total garage height so they said I needed 8" for a low headroom track with a garage door opener so it was very close and the salesman talked me down to a 6'9" door to be on the safe side so that I knew it could be installed. I would have been able to get the 7' door in there just barely I think but the 6'9" works fine. I have 6'6.5" total headroom with the door up and that fits my expedition by about 2.5". That gives me a few inches above for lights later anyway so I guess this may even work out better. The door cost me $1300 and the beam was $425 so with a few misc parts and a $200 opener I fixed it for about $2200 I figure doing everything myself. I am sure it would have cost $3000 more if I had it done and I think I did a better job than any company would have. The door is perfect and sealed all the way around and opens and closes right on. The beam worked out well and I made use of the previous wood from the header for the garage door frame. I had to fix a little masonry that was cracked on the wall too.
Taking out that center post was a thrill. The problem was found to be that they used wood shims on top of the footer and these were totally rotted because I don't think they were treated. Even the 4 2x4s that were the center support went below ground level by about 6" and these weren't treated so they were totally rotted on the bottom. Then on top of this the footer was not even close to level on the top so that was what was causing the support to slide off of it. So many things done wrong on that part it was amazing the house was still standing. When the house was jacked up I used a 3' crow bar between the header and the center post to pry it off and that was causing it to sink more because the wood was so rotted it was just crumbing off the bottom.
Anyway all I have left is to put concrete in that hole where the old center support was and paint that wood in the front. Anyone know if I have to prime that pine before painting with an exterior paint to make it last outdoors? It is this simple stuff I don't know .
Thanks again for the help.
Check out my gallary for final pictures.
Taking out that center post was a thrill. The problem was found to be that they used wood shims on top of the footer and these were totally rotted because I don't think they were treated. Even the 4 2x4s that were the center support went below ground level by about 6" and these weren't treated so they were totally rotted on the bottom. Then on top of this the footer was not even close to level on the top so that was what was causing the support to slide off of it. So many things done wrong on that part it was amazing the house was still standing. When the house was jacked up I used a 3' crow bar between the header and the center post to pry it off and that was causing it to sink more because the wood was so rotted it was just crumbing off the bottom.
Anyway all I have left is to put concrete in that hole where the old center support was and paint that wood in the front. Anyone know if I have to prime that pine before painting with an exterior paint to make it last outdoors? It is this simple stuff I don't know .
Thanks again for the help.
Check out my gallary for final pictures.
Last edited by dan_s_johnson; 10-16-2004 at 09:11 PM.
#66
Have to agree with Howdy Dan, looks great and doing it yourself not only saved some bucks but gives you a nice accomplishment to talk about...nice work...
I'm on the other side of the fence on the caulk/paint tho from Howdy...I've always found it was better to prime your wood first, then apply the caulking then the paint...the acrylic latex caulking seems to hold better to primed wood than to unprimed...at least in my experience...and don't use pure silicone caulk as it won't take the paint at all...
One other thing I would check in the room above, I believe it's a bedroom?, is to make sure none of the 'subfloor' nails popped up when you did your jacking...a tough way to find out is with a young'n running thru the room barefoot and getting a gash...you can use the head of a hammer laid flat to sort of scrape across it to feel for any loose ones, then just pound them back down thru the carpet...
What's the next project? hehe
Brad
I'm on the other side of the fence on the caulk/paint tho from Howdy...I've always found it was better to prime your wood first, then apply the caulking then the paint...the acrylic latex caulking seems to hold better to primed wood than to unprimed...at least in my experience...and don't use pure silicone caulk as it won't take the paint at all...
One other thing I would check in the room above, I believe it's a bedroom?, is to make sure none of the 'subfloor' nails popped up when you did your jacking...a tough way to find out is with a young'n running thru the room barefoot and getting a gash...you can use the head of a hammer laid flat to sort of scrape across it to feel for any loose ones, then just pound them back down thru the carpet...
What's the next project? hehe
Brad
#68
Alrighty I'll get that primed, caulked, and painted. The carpet in the house needs replacing too so I'll get the nails down when the carpet comes up. First though I will be fixing and repainting the walls (since it won't matter if I ruin the carpet). I am so glad this got done before it got cold. It was in the 30s here over the weekend so I finished this project just in time. Thanks again for the suggestions.
On to the rest of the house...bathroom over the winter...roof in spring...and the list goes on. 45 yr old house with nearly everything original leaves lots of work to do. The stove and oven for example are twice my age but they still work .
On to the rest of the house...bathroom over the winter...roof in spring...and the list goes on. 45 yr old house with nearly everything original leaves lots of work to do. The stove and oven for example are twice my age but they still work .
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