I'm nearing completion of my project 460 and am just now doubting whether or not my engine is internally balanced. When I put on the damper and pulley there is still a couple of inches of crank showing behind the damper. There are two keyways on my crankshaft. I have to assume one is for the damper but how do I know for sure if the other is for the "hatchet" counterweight? I have a D1VE block but it was only a longblock when I bought it and it didn't have anything on the crank in the way of damper or counterweight. Do I need a counter-balanced flexplate to go with this if it is externally balanced? Thanks so much for all yall's help in advance!
SGT Stephen A. Green
Paratrooper, US Army

 

I had a similar question and had it answered by having the crank assembly balanced during the build. I ordered a new flexplate for my 79 and it came with a weight welded on. I neded to use the hatchet sleeve to balance it out.

 

Check the casting number on the crankshaft. It should be on the second throw and will be something like a 2Y or 3Y. The internal balanced motors have a sleeve that goes behind the balancer.

 

I just installed the engine and REALLY don't want to go through the trouble of pulling the engine to get the pan off and look at the crank casting number. Is there any other way? The engine came to me without any information regarding the internal/external balance and without the sleeve on the crank or a flexplate. I have a new Scat flexplate that's externally balanced and have found a seller on e-bay that offers the "hatchet" or the sleeve, whichever I need. Question is, which one do I need? What problems would I have if I went ahead and installed the hatchet and flexplate? I've heard some people use these hatchets for strokers. Is there something I'm still missing? Thanks again, everybody!

 

The "HIGH PERFORMANCE FORD ENGINE PARTS INTERCHANGE" book that so many people swear by says on page 97 "All of the 385-series big-blocks are internally balanced, which means interchangeability is unlimited." This book was written in 1998 and basically says at least six or seven times that there was no such thing as a factory 460 with an external balancer! On page 100 it does, however, show a 428 with a hatchet used to make up the difference of the heavier LeMans cap-screw rods. What gives?

 

the HP books ford V8 rebuild manual also says that all 460s are internal balance.

It's just plain WRONG. it was written in '80 (it was wrong, or at least a year out of date in '80) but its been reprinted several times since then and is still wrong,

 

Man, that makes me want to write this George Reid fella and go NUCLEAR on his ****. A lot of people like myself put faith in books like this because they are written by guys that supposedly know what they're talking about. I've disproved quite a good bit of what was written in this book just by talking to the good folks at Ford.
So, is my engine going to be OK if I grind off the weight that is welded on the flexplate I bought and I install the crank spacer instead of a "Hatchet"?

 

More of a side note, there is supposed to be a thin washer to serve as an oil slinger that gets captured behind that sleeve and the timing gear to prevent oil from working threw the front seal.. I don't know the history of that engine, but 79 and later 460's are externally weighted, The only sure way i know is to id the crank casting as suggested, however there were also variations in the converter pilot hole size that may offer a clue as the year of the crankshaft. I suspect the flexplate pattern is the same between the two, but you could go to any parts store and have them pull an early and late model flexplate and compare.It is late in the game to be gambling with something this crucial.The rod weights vary a lot between years, and your pistons weight differs from stock etc.. You really have no idea if it is even close to being right if your rotating assembly was "pieced" together from different motors . Your piece of mind would benefit from pulling the pan. I would bite the bullet to make sure and look. if it is externally balanced you need both the "hatchet and weighted flexplate" if not it gets a spacer and neutral flexplate.

 

Yes, all Ford performance 429's and 460's are internally balanced. The 1979 and later externally balanced 460's are NOT performance 460's. They are light duty (F-150-550) truck motors. They also have truck casting codes like D9TE, E3TE, E6TE, etc...

To answer you balance question: There is no way of knowing EXACTLY what the crank is without the casting code. Odds are that the crank belongs to the block, which would make it a 1971 internally balanced crank, BUT, thats only playing the odds.

There should be a sleeve that goes behind the Harmonic balancer, that is why you have the large space. It holds the crank timing gear in place and is what the seal, seals on. The sleeve should be straight for the internal balanced cranks, and have a counter weight ("hatchet") for the external balanced crank. The flex plate/flywheel will be zero balanced for the internal balanced crank and have a counter weight for the external crank. Good luck.

 

[QUOTE=booneyrat75]What problems would I have if I went ahead and installed the hatchet and flexplate?[QUOTE]

The motor will shake apart if you use the wrong parts.

 

I read somewhere that Ford extended the bottom of the block cylinder sleeves in 1979 for better piston stability. This in turn limited the available space for the crank counterweight throws. This lead to the external balance weights.

Supposedly this meant you would have clearance problems using a internally balanced crankshaft in a 1979 or newer block. Although the opposite is fine.

Just my two cents...
-John

 

You all can't imagine how much help you've been throughout this build. Thanks again. I'm biting the bullet and pulling the engine enough to drop my pan and see the crank for the casting number in the next day or so. Peace of mind is a big thing when you tie up enough money in a project. One question I have is concerning the crank spacer. With the timing cover installed and the seal in the timing cover, does the spacer just get pushed or forced in the seal or will I need to pull the timing cover? Also, do I need to find an oil slinger to add to this now? As it sits now the engine is in the truck but not all plumbing or connections have been made. The crank is protruding from the front of the engine and the damper with the attached pulley are in my closet. I'm also looking for a woodruff key for the crank damper (Autozone?). Thanks as always, everybody, and have a fine Airborne day!

SGT Stephen A. Green
Paratrooper, US Army

 

The casting I'm looking for on the crank is "2Y" for an internally balanced crank, right?

 

That would be right.

 

Rock on, I'm toolin!