scmt/trans torque/trans gage
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Senior User
Joined: May 2002
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From: East Texas
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
Hello
can anyone tell me why the hp decrease in the psd auto trans?
Dealer where I bought my truck said that the automatic can't take the torque.
I want to get the scmt and the 3 gage a-pillar set, but don't want to distroy my trans.
Would anyone here know the torque rating for the R4100 auto?
My 2001 psd has a trans cooler in the radiator, will this alone protect my trans from overheating or would I still need the gage?
If I get the scmt, which program will give the best mpg?
Thanks
can anyone tell me why the hp decrease in the psd auto trans?
Dealer where I bought my truck said that the automatic can't take the torque.
I want to get the scmt and the 3 gage a-pillar set, but don't want to distroy my trans.
Would anyone here know the torque rating for the R4100 auto?
My 2001 psd has a trans cooler in the radiator, will this alone protect my trans from overheating or would I still need the gage?
If I get the scmt, which program will give the best mpg?
Thanks
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
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From: SE Florida
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
Here is what 4R1100 means in Ford speak:
4 = four speed transmission
R = rear wheel drive
100 = 1000 lb-ft of torque capacity AFTER the torque converter multiplies torque by almost 2:1.
Since you can't get maximum engine torque when the torque converter is at maximum multiplication, they allow more than 500 lb-ft of torque at the engine flywheel.
Mark
4 = four speed transmission
R = rear wheel drive
100 = 1000 lb-ft of torque capacity AFTER the torque converter multiplies torque by almost 2:1.
Since you can't get maximum engine torque when the torque converter is at maximum multiplication, they allow more than 500 lb-ft of torque at the engine flywheel.
Mark
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2002
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From: East Texas
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
Thank for the response
just a little technical for my simple mind
I would like to add the 80 hp 130 lb.torque program. will I be safe?
I don't plan to hot rod this truck, just like to add some hp and get better mpg.
Thanks in advance
gseeders
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
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From: SE Florida
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
The best answer I can give you is maybe...
The transmission is near it's design capacity with the stock engine. With more torque...how lucky do you feel?
Mark
The transmission is near it's design capacity with the stock engine. With more torque...how lucky do you feel?
Mark
Freshman User
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 37
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From: Phoenix USA
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
>The transmission is near it's design capacity with the stock
>engine. With more torque...how lucky do you feel?
>
>Mark
Mark,
I'm confused....doesn't this contradict what the Superchips FAQ says? Also,(forgive my pinheadedness-I'm new) my MSRP sticker just says "Elect 4-SPD Auto Trans". Is this the same tranny? Is there more than one?
Truck is '02 F250 Lariat CC SB 4x4.
Thanks,
Peter
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
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From: SE Florida
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
>I'm confused....doesn't this contradict what the Superchips
>FAQ says?
I have no idea. What does Superchips say?
>Also,(forgive my pinheadedness-I'm new) my MSRP
>sticker just says "Elect 4-SPD Auto Trans". Is this the
>same tranny? Is there more than one?
>
>Truck is '02 F250 Lariat CC SB 4x4.
Yes, that is the 4R100 transmission. It is the only automatic in the F250-F550.
Mark
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2002
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From: East Texas
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
Thanks Mark
I read a few post on here reguarding trans being overhauled and although none came out to say that the chip was the cause and it very well may not of been I would'nt want to take a chance on blowing a @2500.00 trans. for a little more hp/torque.
I remember when I was looking into a freightliner truck, every time I ask for more hp/torque, model of trans. had to be changed.
If I was to get a 54hp chip would I be safer not towing with it apposed to towing? or do you think the risk is the same eather way?
again thanks for your help!
gseeders
I read a few post on here reguarding trans being overhauled and although none came out to say that the chip was the cause and it very well may not of been I would'nt want to take a chance on blowing a @2500.00 trans. for a little more hp/torque.
I remember when I was looking into a freightliner truck, every time I ask for more hp/torque, model of trans. had to be changed.
If I was to get a 54hp chip would I be safer not towing with it apposed to towing? or do you think the risk is the same eather way?
again thanks for your help!
gseeders
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Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: SE Florida
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
I think the risk is the same either way. Torque is torque, whether or not you are towing.
Mark
Mark
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Joined: May 2002
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From: Phoenix USA
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
Mark--
>>I'm confused....doesn't this contradict what the Superchips
>>FAQ says?
>
>I have no idea. What does Superchips say?
Superchips says you can have a free lunch--increase hp and torque without modifying the tranny.
I'm curious about "torque is torque". Is torque generated like horsepower, as a function of pressing the gas pedal, or is it generated in response to resistance?
Also (please don't be offended) I'm wondering if you could tell us a little about your background/expertise?
Thanks for all your help!
Peter
>>I'm confused....doesn't this contradict what the Superchips
>>FAQ says?
>
>I have no idea. What does Superchips say?
Superchips says you can have a free lunch--increase hp and torque without modifying the tranny.
I'm curious about "torque is torque". Is torque generated like horsepower, as a function of pressing the gas pedal, or is it generated in response to resistance?
Also (please don't be offended) I'm wondering if you could tell us a little about your background/expertise?
Thanks for all your help!
Peter
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
Torque is torque. The resitance doesn't really matter.
At a given engine speed and a given "go" pedal, the engine makes "X" torque. If there is little resistance the engine speed will increase quickly. If there is more resistance the engine speed will increase slowly, or stay the same. But at that speed and pedal position the torque is the same, regardless of load. All that changes is how long it stays at that speed.
A chip manufacturer isn't going to advertise that increasing torque and horsepower has the potential to shorten the life of the engine/transmission/driveshaft/transfer case/axles.
As for my background and expertise, I am an automatic transmission engineer at Ford Motor Company. I've been doing this since 1988. Before this I was an engine engineer at a smaller company called Roush Industries. You may have heard of them. One of my bosses when I was there was recently in the news about a small plane crash that he survived. Before that I was an automatic transmission engineer on the M1 Abrams main battle tank.
I also have a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering, and a Master of Automotive Engineering, both from Lawrence Technological University.
That should about cover it!
Mark
At a given engine speed and a given "go" pedal, the engine makes "X" torque. If there is little resistance the engine speed will increase quickly. If there is more resistance the engine speed will increase slowly, or stay the same. But at that speed and pedal position the torque is the same, regardless of load. All that changes is how long it stays at that speed.
A chip manufacturer isn't going to advertise that increasing torque and horsepower has the potential to shorten the life of the engine/transmission/driveshaft/transfer case/axles.
As for my background and expertise, I am an automatic transmission engineer at Ford Motor Company. I've been doing this since 1988. Before this I was an engine engineer at a smaller company called Roush Industries. You may have heard of them. One of my bosses when I was there was recently in the news about a small plane crash that he survived. Before that I was an automatic transmission engineer on the M1 Abrams main battle tank.
I also have a Bachelor of Science in Mechanical Engineering, and a Master of Automotive Engineering, both from Lawrence Technological University.
That should about cover it!
Mark
Freshman User
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From: Phoenix USA
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 31-May-02 AT 04:08 PM (EST)]Mark--I thought you sounded like you might be a little qualified :P
I wonder why Ford puts in a tranny so close to it's max capacity? I would think you would want a 15-20% cushion to keep from overworking. At first I thought it was because peak torque might spike briefly, but the curve chart I've seen shows pretty constant torque at ~500 ft/lbs from 1500 to 2100 rpms--which seems like the normal driving range.
My logical extrapolation is, then, a chip would be causing the tranny to exceed it's rated torque capacity during most normal conditions. Am I making the right assumptions?
If so, I guess you'll need to write us a tech piece on stuffing one of those Abrams trannys into and F250, eh?
Peter
I wonder why Ford puts in a tranny so close to it's max capacity? I would think you would want a 15-20% cushion to keep from overworking. At first I thought it was because peak torque might spike briefly, but the curve chart I've seen shows pretty constant torque at ~500 ft/lbs from 1500 to 2100 rpms--which seems like the normal driving range.
My logical extrapolation is, then, a chip would be causing the tranny to exceed it's rated torque capacity during most normal conditions. Am I making the right assumptions?
If so, I guess you'll need to write us a tech piece on stuffing one of those Abrams trannys into and F250, eh?
Peter
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
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From: SE Florida
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
There is some cushion in the numbers. Ford rates the transmission to handle what the 7.3L is producing. Does it mean the transmission will fail if you go over it? Probably not, but to make the expected life of the transmission (and I can't tell you what that is), that's the torque it's been tested to.
The Abrams transmission is a four speed automatic with a lockup torque converter. It also has two speeds in reverse!
It wouldn't fit real well in a Superduty. The transmission weighs 4300 pounds DRY, and holds 45 GALLONS (yes, gallons, not quarts) of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF!
Mark
The Abrams transmission is a four speed automatic with a lockup torque converter. It also has two speeds in reverse!
It wouldn't fit real well in a Superduty. The transmission weighs 4300 pounds DRY, and holds 45 GALLONS (yes, gallons, not quarts) of Mobil 1 synthetic ATF!
Mark
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scmt/trans torque/trans gage
This is one of the reasons, in addition to EGTs, that you shouldn't tow with a 90 HP program unless you're willing to make modifications. The unfortunate reality is that not all chip dealers are willing to be frank and up front and will sell you extreme chips without notifying you of the risks. I require anyone buying a 90, 110 or higher HP program to sign a release form. The form includes some of the precautions plus notification that the extreme program is not for towing.
Freshman User
Joined: May 2002
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From: Phoenix USA
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
Ken,
It's nice that you're so ethical you make customers sign a disclaimer. I'm sure it makes your attorney all warm and fuzzy.
What I hear Mark saying is that ANY increase in torque exceeds the transmissions rated specs and CAN lead to increase failure rate. Not that a HIGH performance chip is dangerous, but that ANY chip is a risk.
I know Mark is probably here to find out for Ford what we are doing with their vehicles, but he IS an automotive engineer that designs transmissions. I'm slightly inclined to beleive him.
What is your stand on using any chip vs. transmission failure rates?
It's nice that you're so ethical you make customers sign a disclaimer. I'm sure it makes your attorney all warm and fuzzy.
What I hear Mark saying is that ANY increase in torque exceeds the transmissions rated specs and CAN lead to increase failure rate. Not that a HIGH performance chip is dangerous, but that ANY chip is a risk.
I know Mark is probably here to find out for Ford what we are doing with their vehicles, but he IS an automotive engineer that designs transmissions. I'm slightly inclined to beleive him.
What is your stand on using any chip vs. transmission failure rates?
Frmr Ford Trans Engr
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 24,741
Likes: 2,669
From: SE Florida
scmt/trans torque/trans gage
>I know Mark is probably here to find out for Ford what we
>are doing with their vehicles,
No, I'm not.
I am here on my own. Ford doesn't know (I don't think!
.)I'm here because I'm a Ford truck enthusiast.
Mark