By Calgary Redneck, in regards to Piston Slap (and it not being a durability issue):

How so? Who are these people in the trade who share a similar view? RECON? That's the only place I can think of. Pistons (unless they are forged, and even then, within 60 seconds they should stop) should not rattle in their bores enough to be audiable outside the engine. Period. I am sure that these fellows "in the trade" obviously are not ASE Certified, nor do they have any formal training, if they feel that Piston slap is acceptable. I'm an ASE Certified Master Technician, Diesel Technician, and Automotive Engine Machinist. I'm also a Graduate of GM's own ASEP program, and guess what? GM, in their own training materials given to their own students do not consider cold piston slap or wrist pin knock to be normal, and they further describe these charicteristics as undesirable and detrimental to engine longevity! Think about this. Take a chunk of high silicone content aluminum and whack it with a hammer over and over and over again. What happens to it? Eventually it crumbles and fails. Aluminum work hardens and becomes fragile if subject to repeated direct impact forces, untill it ultimately fails. Have you seen the inside of an engine with this "harmless, normal operating charicteristic"? Cracked skirts, loose ring lands, and even scored cylinder walls from broken rings (caused by the afformentioned loose ring lands) are often the result. If GM were right, then main and rod bearing knock would be "a normal operating charicteristic" as well. Oh, and the clicking in your CV joints? No problem. How about reduced engine performance? The OBD II engine controls incorporate dual Knock sensors to hedge pre-ignition. They also pick up piston slap, and retard the timing, reducing performance, and milage, and increasing emissions as well. I know Ford is no jem either, but for crying out loud, don't sacrifice your principles just to defend your brand! For example, Spktyr lists an obvious Ford problem about the water spewing Intake manifolds on 4.6L engines and he's right! Ford is full of $%!+ for not replacing these manifolds. There's some bean counter that decided that unless it was a Cop car or a Taxi, it won't be covered (true enough, regular 'Vics, Grand Marquis, or Town Cars aren't covered either). And if you are going to trash every Ford engine and idea and stick up for GM no matter how ludicrous they are, you are exposing yourself as a non-objective heckler, here just to try and P.O. Ford guys that want to talk about their trucks. GM needs to fix their piston slap and Ford needs to step up to the plate on the manifold issue or we'll be reminicing about the good old days, before the Japaneese shut Detroit (and Dearborn) down.

 

GM just issued an extended warranty for 159,000 01 and 02 dmax owners. The diesel warranty was 5/100k and is now 7yr/200k. They are sure stepping up the plate on this issue. It'd be nice if Ford would follow suit but they seem much less interested in customer satisfaction in my experience so I doubt they'll be doing anything like that.

 

I think it's more likely that Isuzu stepped up. It's a pride thing for the Japanese. If not, then why hasn't GM stepped up for the gasoline engines with the same problem? Back in the mid 90's GM had the same problem! I had the misfortune of owning a 2.2L 4 cyl. GMC Sonoma. From 5,000 miles on it rattled and sounded like it was going to explode! They swore up and down it was normal. I called the warranty claims department and they insisted it was "operating within design intent". When I told them I had Graduated with an Applied Science Degree from their training program and that their own training manuals insisted that it was not a normal condition, and that it was a detrimental to engine longevity, they flat out lied and said that this didn't apply to my engine! Guess every other engine in the world is different, and the 2.2L is unique. BTW, I worked at an Oldsmobile dealer at the time, and that same engine was in the Cutlass Ciera. Oldsmobile was pulling engines left and right for their customers. That burned me up even more, having the same engine with the same problem and getting a runaround from GMC. I think it's wrong for Ford not to step up on the intake manifold issue too, please understand that, but the Duramax comes from an outside supplier... even if GM owns that supplier, it's not the same to them. When GM steps up to the plate to fix the gasoline knockers, then I'll believe it. And when Ford steps up and takes care of the intake manifold problems, they'll get my respect again. Untill that time, I'll keep my '84 Olds and '96 F-150 and they can both scratch.

 

You say same problem twice. When did GM have injector issues with gas motors? I'm sorry you've had other problems with GM but I don't think it's the same problem.

Your speculation that Isuzu is behind the extended warranty is just that, speculation. But what does it matter? Shouldn't Navstar/IH or Ford stand behind their trucks as well?

This really is such a great thing for dmax owners. I'm sure there was getting to be some re-sale concerns that this should wipe out.

 

Well jeb youstated it exactly. It will surely increase the resale value of the older duramaxes. One thing that hurts GM bad is its reputation in the past. To many bad diesel motors too many years. Everything pre duramax was not too good. Wheras ford up until the new 6.0 were pretty flawless. You no what a lot of people think of duramax on this site they dont think to much of it at all. Deserved or not thats the way it is. And it has a lot to do in the past the reputation. A lot of these duramax owners might have been ford owners in the past. The minute there someting wrong in there truck theyll trade back to a ford. It happens alot around here. I see a lot of duramaxes on ford lots not vice versa. It will take a while for GM to build up there diesel reputation. This warranty will help. The 6.0s problems has hurt ford some for sure but people have a lot of faith in Ford. There that repution thing a gain. I hope I have been fair here with my opinion.

 

I apologise, but you misunderstood me. I'm talking about Piston slap. The new 4.8, 5.3, and 6.0 liter GM gas engines are having piston slap and wrist pin knock problems. My best friend has a 2003 Chevy 1500 short bed 2WD and it's got the 5.3L V8. It's a really nice truck, but it sounds like it's flying apart. I'm not picking on just GM, please don't get that idea. Ford is just as much to blame. For example, this same friend (can't get no luck, poor guy!) has a 2000 Corwn Vic, and it's intake spewed coolant all over because of the poor design of the coolant passage. Ford refused to warranty it. If it was a taxi or a cop car, then they would have replaced it free of charge. I don't know too much about DC, but I have heard from others (and therefore can't substantiate) that they don't do any better. That is the total problem, and untill the domestics take care of their customers as well as the foreign companies do, they'll continue to loose market share. Now don't beat me up as an import lover, as I always try to buy American. But I would be blind if I couldn't see this as the truth.

 

Thats For sure, All brands have " problem children" An all of the big 3 act as if you have 3 heads if you ask for actual Service..

My Father in Law trade His Mercedes in On a Lexus, Has about 3,000 miles on it or so now, went in for first scheduled maintenance (free), asked how he liked it, said it was great but that tires were a little noisy.. Came back at end of the day to pick it up and had 600.00 of brand new tires on it that he never ASKED for, the dealership simply wanted to keep him happy, While I have seen Complaints from the big three about dealerships refusing the most simple item and asking extra for floormats.. Dang Shame.

 

Well said, 150ford. GM does have to go the extra mile because of their past problems and that may have been part of the decision. Ford is probably resting a bit on their past laurels. That may or may not bite them in the long run. If they can get this motor fixed, it probably won't hurt them too badly. But they really need to get on the stick and get the job done, IMO.

I see more PSD on GM lots around here but, if their ads are to believed, Chevy outsells ford in these parts. It's easy to believe that from what I see on the road, farms and construction sites around here, too. But that's just regional stuff.

 

I agree you can only rest on your laurels so long. I hope were at the end of any more power increases out of these engines. Enough is enough. Like I said before higher horsepower means less miles per gallon. Now days we cant burn any more than we have too. Looks like ford is sure promoting the new 2005 superduty pop up ads on alot of truck sites. I kind of like the new looks. And by the way I hope your having better luck with your 6.0.

 

Not always, eventually someone will come out with a diesel that makes gobs of power and still gets good mileage. There is a point where these trucks are overpowered though, because there's only going to be so much that we can do with the trucks in this particular class. How much power do they need?

 

I believe y'all are referring to www.gmpistonslap.com , the site where people who have been burned by GM can get together and discuss their problems and find solutions.

Yes, I also admit that Ford and Chrysler have problems too, but none seem to be as widespread as the piston slap and csk issues with the vortec series of engines. See with, Ford, its just the 6.0, maybe the 4.6 too with issues, but, with GM, it's the whole family of vortec engines, 4.8, 5.3, 6.0, and 8.1, not to mention the overheating problems the new Colorado I-4 and I-5's have.

 

That isn't even anything close to the truth. My old '99 PSD used much less fuel than the '90 Chev diesel we have (more displacement AND power in the PSD). My 465hp '71 429 in a 6980lbs '79 truck gets way better fuel mileage than my 5800lbs '77 truck with a stock 400. I get better fuel economy in my '79 hauling 8000# in the back than an empty half ton Chev supercab 4x4 with a V-8. So many factors control fuel mileage, but when you eliminate all factors but the motor, it comes down to efficiency. Plain and simple, the better the design of the motor, the less fuel it will require to produce X amount of hp. If you think more hp means less fuel economy, then pull your motor out and rebuild it to produce 100 hp and see what kind of fuel economy you get.

 

More than they are making now. I sold my '99 becouse I didn't want to add a bunch of performance stuff to it just to make it have enough power. The problem is with the owners of the trucks. Give them more power and they think they need to use it all the time. For example: Say Ford comes out with a 450 hp PSD. Now, do you think most owners will say "cool, I can cruise at 63 mph and pull my load with very little throttle input and get great mileage"??? No, they will say "cool, instead of driving 75mph with 10,000lbs, I can now drive 90". In turn, Ford will have to build the motor around those conditions or they will go under with warrenty claims from burned down motors, it's a catch 22. That's why I went back to older trucks. I can build what I need, that fits the way I drive, for a lot less money than a new truck. In most cases, I get much better mileage than the newer trucks too.

 

Cool, never heard of isusie untill one of my Bobcats came with one in it! Good to see an American company being the biggest!

 

The Caterpillar/Isuzu thing is kind of immaterial - "world's largest" can be calculated a number of different ways. Example: Isuzu ships more in terms of absolute unit numbers, Caterpillar makes more models and is an enormous company with plants everywhere. Who's the biggest? Depends on how you're figuring it.