possible duramax issue
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2003
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Originally Posted by P51D Mustang
It's fact that the service manager at the local GM dealer, told me about 3 out of the first five D Max's sold by that dealership coming back with blown motors.
It's a fact that they were indeed blown, even though GM refused to send replacements until he sent them proof.
It's a fact that D-Max's have an ongoing problem with leaky injectors.
It's a fact that D-Max's in hot climates have a head gasket problem, and a head warping problem.
It's fact that when a friend of mine went to pick up his new GM truck, that he waited on for six months, the sales manager who was a relative, told him he would be better off taking a gas truck instead. When asked why, they walked around back were 13 new nonfunctional D max's had been lined up awaiting their turn for modifications.
It's a fact, about 1/2 the D-Max's I see here (not that many) have for sale signs on them.
It's fact that D-Max's cost way more than comparable Cummins or PSD's and therefore offer less value to the customer.
No amount of GM propaganda can change these facts.
It's a fact that they were indeed blown, even though GM refused to send replacements until he sent them proof.
It's a fact that D-Max's have an ongoing problem with leaky injectors.
It's a fact that D-Max's in hot climates have a head gasket problem, and a head warping problem.
It's fact that when a friend of mine went to pick up his new GM truck, that he waited on for six months, the sales manager who was a relative, told him he would be better off taking a gas truck instead. When asked why, they walked around back were 13 new nonfunctional D max's had been lined up awaiting their turn for modifications.
It's a fact, about 1/2 the D-Max's I see here (not that many) have for sale signs on them.
It's fact that D-Max's cost way more than comparable Cummins or PSD's and therefore offer less value to the customer.
No amount of GM propaganda can change these facts.
How about if I say "I know the service manager at the local Chevy place and they've never seen a blown dmax or a leaky head". That would be true but are you willing to take my word for it?
I think a better point of reference is the internet forums. Those are real world owners talking about their trucks and problems. And the dmax forums sure seem to bear out the point that the dmax is a much, much more reliable motor than the 6.0.
I don't want this to be true but it is. I kick myself quite a bit for trading my perfectly reliable, quiet and consistently strong running 01 dmax on my current 6.0PoSD. I sure didn't WANT to have to be going through the DSB process on my $52k truck. I'd love to be happy with this motor but it's been so unreliable and problematic that I worry about any trip out of town with it. And that is a fact.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 987
Likes: 3
From: Bass Lake, CA
isuzu is not the worlds largest producer of diesels....if you add their gas engines, they are ONE of the largest engine producers...
care to guess who is number 1 ?
"Caterpillar Inc. is the world's largest manufacturer of diesel engines with over 75 years of experience. With a power range of 5bhp to 21,715bhp "
care to guess who is number 1 ?
"Caterpillar Inc. is the world's largest manufacturer of diesel engines with over 75 years of experience. With a power range of 5bhp to 21,715bhp "
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,378
Likes: 3
From: nebraska
Hey Jeb I feel for you. If I went through what you did Id feel the same way. You probably even wont consider a ford again. Reminds me of teh 90s chevy diesels which were the most problamatic out there. After the warrany was up they would really cost you. Some people would never buy a GM diesel again because of those experiences. I hope ford is not headed down that path.
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 574
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by P51D Mustang
It's fact that when a friend of mine went to pick up his new GM truck, that he waited on for six months, the sales manager who was a relative, told him he would be better off taking a gas truck instead. When asked why, they walked around back were 13 new nonfunctional D max's had been lined up awaiting their turn for modifications.
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 150
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by P51D Mustang
It's fact that the service manager at the local GM dealer, told me about 3 out of the first five D Max's sold by that dealership coming back with blown motors.
It's a fact that they were indeed blown, even though GM refused to send replacements until he sent them proof.
It's a fact that D-Max's have an ongoing problem with leaky injectors.
It's a fact that D-Max's in hot climates have a head gasket problem, and a head warping problem.
It's fact that when a friend of mine went to pick up his new GM truck, that he waited on for six months, the sales manager who was a relative, told him he would be better off taking a gas truck instead. When asked why, they walked around back were 13 new nonfunctional D max's had been lined up awaiting their turn for modifications.
It's a fact, about 1/2 the D-Max's I see here (not that many) have for sale signs on them.
It's fact that D-Max's cost way more than comparable Cummins or PSD's and therefore offer less value to the customer.
No amount of GM propaganda can change these facts.
I'm going to bet my hard earned money on International or Cummins.
It's a fact that they were indeed blown, even though GM refused to send replacements until he sent them proof.
It's a fact that D-Max's have an ongoing problem with leaky injectors.
It's a fact that D-Max's in hot climates have a head gasket problem, and a head warping problem.
It's fact that when a friend of mine went to pick up his new GM truck, that he waited on for six months, the sales manager who was a relative, told him he would be better off taking a gas truck instead. When asked why, they walked around back were 13 new nonfunctional D max's had been lined up awaiting their turn for modifications.
It's a fact, about 1/2 the D-Max's I see here (not that many) have for sale signs on them.
It's fact that D-Max's cost way more than comparable Cummins or PSD's and therefore offer less value to the customer.
No amount of GM propaganda can change these facts.
I'm going to bet my hard earned money on International or Cummins.
Lets move on - nothing to see here
mattsf250
Good piece of info - I did not know that...
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 150ford
CSK Cold Spark Knock Check this out www.pistonslap.com it will explain.
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 874
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Originally Posted by 150ford
Hey Jeb I feel for you. If I went through what you did Id feel the same way. You probably even wont consider a ford again. Reminds me of teh 90s chevy diesels which were the most problamatic out there. After the warrany was up they would really cost you. Some people would never buy a GM diesel again because of those experiences. I hope ford is not headed down that path.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 5,378
Likes: 3
From: nebraska
Hey calgary redneck I would have to disagree with you on the piston slap issue. Have you read the forums people are upset. The trouble is some of these engines are knocking all the time not just at startup. No damage is done. Anything that knocks isnt good. How do you sell a truck that knocks. Would anyone want it. Would you off course not. I am a ford guy and ford has had some of these issues. They replaced some engines and as far as I know its not an issue anymore. However GM says thats normal Bull its not. My bet is they will have to redesighn there gas motors to completly get rid of the problem. - I want you to reply in the GM forums what you told me. You might not like what you have to hear. This issue is not blown out of proportion believe me to the people who have it. Have you experienced this yourself. I doubt if you would talk the way you do if you did. Ford has had problems with there 6.0 diesel. To the people who have had them its not overblown. The sad part is GM denying theres a problem. A knock is not normal period. In all the years Ive had trucks never had this problem. Jeb thanks for the reply and hope your problems get straightened out. Good Luck.I am not antiGM or antidodge just pointing out problems. GM as well as ford were to quick to put there engines to quick in the marketplace before fully testing them out and the consumers pay the price. Trucks are big business to the big 3 and market share is critical. The last several years without truck sales would have been the end for the big 3. Competition is good up to a point but sometimes the consumer pays the price of not fully tested products.
Last edited by 150ford; May 4, 2004 at 02:37 PM.
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New User
Joined: Apr 2004
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i just wanted to chime in on a couple of issues. I am a certified GM tech and have been for the past 9 years. In that time i have only seen 2 D-max engines replaced and only one in for injector problems. I'm not saying that anything that has been said is untrue, but in my experiences i have not seen it.
with reguards to the piston slap issue, I have replace one 3.4L engine for that issue. The only reason it was replaced was for customer satisfaction under warranty. I have never seen engine damage because of piston slap.
I am not anti ford, infact i own a 77 f150 and an 02 f250. I am very pleased with these vechicals. I just wanted to let people in on my experiences.
with reguards to the piston slap issue, I have replace one 3.4L engine for that issue. The only reason it was replaced was for customer satisfaction under warranty. I have never seen engine damage because of piston slap.
I am not anti ford, infact i own a 77 f150 and an 02 f250. I am very pleased with these vechicals. I just wanted to let people in on my experiences.
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by 150ford
Hey calgary redneck I would have to disagree with you on the piston slap issue. Have you read the forums people are upset. The trouble is some of these engines are knocking all the time not just at startup. No damage is done. Anything that knocks isnt good. How do you sell a truck that knocks. Would anyone want it. Would you off course not. I am a ford guy and ford has had some of these issues. They replaced some engines and as far as I know its not an issue anymore. However GM says thats normal Bull its not. My bet is they will have to redesighn there gas motors to completly get rid of the problem. - I want you to reply in the GM forums what you told me. You might not like what you have to hear. This issue is not blown out of proportion believe me to the people who have it. Have you experienced this yourself. I doubt if you would talk the way you do if you did. Ford has had problems with there 6.0 diesel. To the people who have had them its not overblown. The sad part is GM denying theres a problem. A knock is not normal period. In all the years Ive had trucks never had this problem. Jeb thanks for the reply and hope your problems get straightened out. Good Luck.I am not antiGM or antidodge just pointing out problems. GM as well as ford were to quick to put there engines to quick in the marketplace before fully testing them out and the consumers pay the price. Trucks are big business to the big 3 and market share is critical. The last several years without truck sales would have been the end for the big 3. Competition is good up to a point but sometimes the consumer pays the price of not fully tested products.
I"m gonna try to bite my tounge here and say I"m gonna have to disagree with you here on some points. First of all to say that the engine will need to be redesigned to fix the problem is rediculas. Any engine will suffer from piston slap when cold if the pistons are fitted loose
it hardly requires a redesign and can simple be corrected by tightening up piston to wall clearances. BTW I am a member of many forums and most people that have experiance in the trade agree share a simalar view to me.
Elder User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 987
Likes: 3
From: Bass Lake, CA
hmmmmm, run a tighter piston to bore clearance of corse!
LMAO
anyhoo, as was said, ford has had this issue as well, the 85-92 mustangs had forged aluminum pistons, and all had LIGHT piston slap on startup. this is due to the fact they ran a ~.004" piston to bore clearance, the ones in the .003" range were silent...some went as high as .0045, and usually also had oil consumption problems... in 93, all the way till 95 when the H.O. 5.0 engine was phased out, they ran hyperutectic cast aluminum pistons, they ran a TIGHT .0020-.0025" piston to bore clearance, and those did, and do start and run silent.
now, as for piston slap not causing ANY damage...again, LMAO. it does in fact score the piston skirt, and over time, WILL score the cylinder and therefore wear the rings, and cause higher than normal oil consumption. I have no idea why piston slap is being reffered to as CSK however, who ever said they were the same?????????
cold spark knock..... that would be detonation when the engine is below normal operating temperature.
piston slap.... would be excess clearance between the piston and the cylinder bore before the piston has soaked enough heat to expand and close the gap a little....
now, if i am incorrect, please edjumacate me
LMAO
anyhoo, as was said, ford has had this issue as well, the 85-92 mustangs had forged aluminum pistons, and all had LIGHT piston slap on startup. this is due to the fact they ran a ~.004" piston to bore clearance, the ones in the .003" range were silent...some went as high as .0045, and usually also had oil consumption problems... in 93, all the way till 95 when the H.O. 5.0 engine was phased out, they ran hyperutectic cast aluminum pistons, they ran a TIGHT .0020-.0025" piston to bore clearance, and those did, and do start and run silent.
now, as for piston slap not causing ANY damage...again, LMAO. it does in fact score the piston skirt, and over time, WILL score the cylinder and therefore wear the rings, and cause higher than normal oil consumption. I have no idea why piston slap is being reffered to as CSK however, who ever said they were the same?????????
cold spark knock..... that would be detonation when the engine is below normal operating temperature.
piston slap.... would be excess clearance between the piston and the cylinder bore before the piston has soaked enough heat to expand and close the gap a little....
now, if i am incorrect, please edjumacate me
Elder User
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 660
Likes: 0
The pre 93 HO had to run more clearance because of the use of forged pistons. Forged pistons grow much more with heat.
I have already outlined my protection of my source in another thread , and I'm not going to again. Nevertheless, I'm only honestly sharing what I know. Anything obtained over the net is considered hear say evidence. I put more faith in word of mouth than in postings on the net. This not only includes what you and I write, but also so called official postings by corporations. I suspect it's not so much hear say that I wrote, as it it heresy.
I have already outlined my protection of my source in another thread , and I'm not going to again. Nevertheless, I'm only honestly sharing what I know. Anything obtained over the net is considered hear say evidence. I put more faith in word of mouth than in postings on the net. This not only includes what you and I write, but also so called official postings by corporations. I suspect it's not so much hear say that I wrote, as it it heresy.
Senior User
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by mattsf250
hmmmmm, run a tighter piston to bore clearance of corse!
LMAO
anyhoo, as was said, ford has had this issue as well, the 85-92 mustangs had forged aluminum pistons, and all had LIGHT piston slap on startup. this is due to the fact they ran a ~.004" piston to bore clearance, the ones in the .003" range were silent...some went as high as .0045, and usually also had oil consumption problems... in 93, all the way till 95 when the H.O. 5.0 engine was phased out, they ran hyperutectic cast aluminum pistons, they ran a TIGHT .0020-.0025" piston to bore clearance, and those did, and do start and run silent.
now, as for piston slap not causing ANY damage...again, LMAO. it does in fact score the piston skirt, and over time, WILL score the cylinder and therefore wear the rings, and cause higher than normal oil consumption. I have no idea why piston slap is being reffered to as CSK however, who ever said they were the same?????????
cold spark knock..... that would be detonation when the engine is below normal operating temperature.
piston slap.... would be excess clearance between the piston and the cylinder bore before the piston has soaked enough heat to expand and close the gap a little....
now, if i am incorrect, please edjumacate me
LMAO
anyhoo, as was said, ford has had this issue as well, the 85-92 mustangs had forged aluminum pistons, and all had LIGHT piston slap on startup. this is due to the fact they ran a ~.004" piston to bore clearance, the ones in the .003" range were silent...some went as high as .0045, and usually also had oil consumption problems... in 93, all the way till 95 when the H.O. 5.0 engine was phased out, they ran hyperutectic cast aluminum pistons, they ran a TIGHT .0020-.0025" piston to bore clearance, and those did, and do start and run silent.
now, as for piston slap not causing ANY damage...again, LMAO. it does in fact score the piston skirt, and over time, WILL score the cylinder and therefore wear the rings, and cause higher than normal oil consumption. I have no idea why piston slap is being reffered to as CSK however, who ever said they were the same?????????
cold spark knock..... that would be detonation when the engine is below normal operating temperature.
piston slap.... would be excess clearance between the piston and the cylinder bore before the piston has soaked enough heat to expand and close the gap a little....
now, if i am incorrect, please edjumacate me
Posting Legend
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,255
Likes: 37
Piston slap can also be caused by improper (different) piston pin offset. Some guys that run HP engines set their pistons up so that they do get piston slap because they get more power, less friction piston to wall. It is noisy but in a race engine it hardly matters.