Fuel Injection Installation
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,359
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
Oh, I'll take pictures and everything. The hardest thing looks like welding the O2 sensor holder in the collector of the headers. I think I'll take it down the road to the local welding shop to have that done.
Speaking of the O2 sensor, does anyone have experience with those header wraps? I'd like to keep the O2 sensor as hot as possible, with it being located way down in the collector. Also I'd like to keep the starter cooled down, as well as reduce underhood temperatures. Header wraps seem like the obvious solution. Does anyone know anything about them, any drawbacks?
Speaking of the O2 sensor, does anyone have experience with those header wraps? I'd like to keep the O2 sensor as hot as possible, with it being located way down in the collector. Also I'd like to keep the starter cooled down, as well as reduce underhood temperatures. Header wraps seem like the obvious solution. Does anyone know anything about them, any drawbacks?
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Originally Posted by RapidRuss
Kurt,
Looks Like your coming right along with the Injection..Lookin good..When ya going to fire her up?
Looks Like your coming right along with the Injection..Lookin good..When ya going to fire her up?
I'll see how it works without the header wrap first. If I run it down the road to get the O2 sensor heated up, I should be able to accurately set the fuel map levels at idle. If it looks like it's going to consistently run the O2 sensor too cold, I may go with the header wraps. If they rust out, its just an excuse to get better headers.
FE "Freakin Expensive"
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,461
Likes: 4
From: Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Well it sounds like your on top of it..Keep up with the home work! you can always play with the truck..LOL!! I went down to advanced auto to get the DD3? I the guy said they were sold out..and didnt know if his boss was going to get anymore in?
I sold my spare 390 to my cousin ... Im going to look for a 428 block..not a stroker..but just a .030 428...I have always wanted one..So..I guess now is the time!
Good Luck-Russ
I sold my spare 390 to my cousin ... Im going to look for a 428 block..not a stroker..but just a .030 428...I have always wanted one..So..I guess now is the time!
Good Luck-Russ
Postmaster
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Dallas
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
I'm shooting for Wednesday, if weather and homework allows. I have a base map from Holley, that was set up for a stock chevy 350. I modified it a little for what I think my 360 will need. They ran 19psi fuel pressure, and my pump runs 21 off the shelf, so I've compensated for that by lowering all the base map levels a little. 19/21 = .904, so I multiplied all the values in the base fuel map by .9. I also lowered the idle speed, and told it not to use the spark control feature. I'm sure I'll have to do more tuning once it's up and running, but I think this is a good start. At some point I want to add a crank trigger and knock sensor so I can have it control timing too; this will probably happen when the 390 goes in.
I'll see how it works without the header wrap first. If I run it down the road to get the O2 sensor heated up, I should be able to accurately set the fuel map levels at idle. If it looks like it's going to consistently run the O2 sensor too cold, I may go with the header wraps. If they rust out, its just an excuse to get better headers.
I'll see how it works without the header wrap first. If I run it down the road to get the O2 sensor heated up, I should be able to accurately set the fuel map levels at idle. If it looks like it's going to consistently run the O2 sensor too cold, I may go with the header wraps. If they rust out, its just an excuse to get better headers.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
The wire that runs the fuel pump comes directly from the ECU box, so I'm gonna "take a flying leap" and say that they regulate the voltage to it directly from there. They say in the instructions that the wire coming from the ECU can handle up to 10 amps, and that the included pump doesn't draw nearly that.
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Originally Posted by rusty70f100
...I modified it a little for what I think my 360 will need. They ran 19psi fuel pressure, and my pump runs 21 off the shelf, so I've compensated for that by lowering all the base map levels a little. 19/21 = .904, so I multiplied all the values in the base fuel map by .9 ...
If I'm wrong and your system for sure runs at 21 psi then your calculation would actually be the square root of the ratio of the two pressures. Flow through an orifice is proportional to the square root of the pressure across it. (I think it comes from Bernoulli somehow). Anyway, your ratio would be SQRT(19/21) = 0.951. They list the calculation on the Kinsler Injection website.
EDIT: I take that back. Kinsler screwed up one of their calculations. You'll just have to trust me. ;-)
Good luck and thanks for keeping us posted.
Last edited by mlf72f250; Apr 25, 2004 at 05:52 PM.
Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 1999
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From: McRae, AR
the analog ecu i am using supposedly lowers the voltage of the pump at idle to minimize the fuel return. Holleys manual explains this was done to accomodate return lines that could be possibly too small.
the end result is that the fuel pressure could be anyware from 12 - 20 psi at any given time.. the manual actually says that you may have a problem, and if so, just to run the pump from a relay...
I have also experienced the problem of the 02 sensor reporting inaccurately because with the 2.5" duals there isnt much backpressure.. might want to check and see if the commander 950 lets you modify the 02% correction...this is another reason i am thinking of trying out the megasquirt
the end result is that the fuel pressure could be anyware from 12 - 20 psi at any given time.. the manual actually says that you may have a problem, and if so, just to run the pump from a relay...
I have also experienced the problem of the 02 sensor reporting inaccurately because with the 2.5" duals there isnt much backpressure.. might want to check and see if the commander 950 lets you modify the 02% correction...this is another reason i am thinking of trying out the megasquirt
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: Iowa
Yes it does let me change the O2 compensation. I can adjust it to limit it to any percentage I want, up or down.
Thanks for the heads up on the formula. I didnt quite think simply dividing it sounded right. Fortunately I've got time to make the change. I'll probably change everything while tuning anyway.
The manual says that stock the pumps are regulated to 21psi. They changed this for the stock 350 chevy, because of the lower fuel requirements, to 19psi. This was to increase the pulse width, and gain a little efficiency.
I got quite a bit accomplished today. I got the starter installed, headers installed, and the new dual exhaust routed and clamped up. All I've got to do on the exhaust is put up some hangers. The O2 sensor fit great in the bung I had welded in the header. Tomorrow is homework, I probably wont even touch it. Still on schedule for a Wednesday fire up, though.
Thanks for the heads up on the formula. I didnt quite think simply dividing it sounded right. Fortunately I've got time to make the change. I'll probably change everything while tuning anyway.
The manual says that stock the pumps are regulated to 21psi. They changed this for the stock 350 chevy, because of the lower fuel requirements, to 19psi. This was to increase the pulse width, and gain a little efficiency.
I got quite a bit accomplished today. I got the starter installed, headers installed, and the new dual exhaust routed and clamped up. All I've got to do on the exhaust is put up some hangers. The O2 sensor fit great in the bung I had welded in the header. Tomorrow is homework, I probably wont even touch it. Still on schedule for a Wednesday fire up, though.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
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From: Iowa
Question: I know that Ford made electronic ignition for these trucks in '76, like duraspark or something. However, in the Holley Commander 950 manual, it says I can use the Commander 950 to control timing if I use the ford TFI. What is TFI, and is it equivalent to duraspark?
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 794
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From: Portland, OR
The TFI is a ford hei used on the 460's in 80's and newer trucks. These EFI setups are all TBI right? I plan on adding efi to my 390 in the next few years or alot sooner if gas hits the projected $3 a gallon, but I will go TPI. I'm running electromotive TEC3 on a 1200+ hp twin turbo stroker 302 in my GT350 clone. There is a ton of fabrication with TEC3, but the results are amazing.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,600
Likes: 4
From: Iowa
Holley makes MPFI and TBI systems.
How different is the duraspark distributor from the TFI distributor? I know they used duraspark on '75-'76 FE's. I'd really like to have the Commander 950 control the timing.
How different is the duraspark distributor from the TFI distributor? I know they used duraspark on '75-'76 FE's. I'd really like to have the Commander 950 control the timing.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 6,624
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From: Missouri
Most 90s trucks used TFI ignition if I am correct. The Mustang 5.0L did too. The TFI distributor is compter controlled and is nothing like the duraspark. I don't believe you can get a TFI distributor guts to work in an FE. I would have a distributor curved properly for your build and set up the computer from there.
My career is computers. My hobby is souping up this old truck. I don't try to mix the two.
My career is computers. My hobby is souping up this old truck. I don't try to mix the two.