As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm painting my truck. I'm going with the "regular" two tone which will be Wimbleton White on the top and the rest, Rangoon Red. Anyhow, I'm using Mason Select Prime 2K and Centari acrylic enamel. I have it all sanded and I intend to prime the whole truck (previous discussion). Anyhow, my question is: Should I do a "clear" coat over the acrylic enamel? Thanks.
jor

 

Sorry, I didnt get to see your original post, so am not informed as to your details. I am puzzled as to your wanting to clearcoat acrylic enamel. I went thru the same thing when I was checking on paint for my 79 ford truck. After researching , I found it had acrylic enamel on it from the factory. I wanted to keep the "period" look for that year on my re-paint, and did not care to have the "plastic coat" look of clear on it. But, after much research and talking with the pros, I went with basecoat / clearcoat urethane anyway. The A/E does not have any UV protection, harder to apply for a first timer DIYER painter like myself, and harder to repair later if damaged. So , not being critical here, just curious, if you want the advantage of UV protection and the shine of clearcoat, would you not like to just do the polyurethane basecoat and clear system or just a single stage urethane ? I know, a little more bucks, but I think FAR the better paint system for a longer lasting paint job. just mho, good luck to you,

 

<cr>
Greg is right. Unless you are going for the AE looking, you should consider doing a BC/CC. BC is pretty much idiot proof. CC will have some orange peel but sanding and buffing takes care of that.

 

Hmmmm... You guys have a point. I decided on the Enamel because the paint guy recommended it. Sounded good to me as the truck (67 F-100) had enamel from the factory. Also, I had read in other posts that the urethane is dangerous because of some kind of chemical. It sounds as though I should have done more research here at FTE. I'm stuck now in that I have already purchased the enamel. Wish me luck. I'll forget the clear. BTW, I am a rank amateur at this, having only done it a few times many years ago.
jor

 

<cr>
The chemical is isocyanate and it is very dangerous. It is not found in the basecoat but is in the clearcoat. The chemical is actually in the hardener so if you are using a hardener with your AE, you will have isocyanates.

 

So now I get the dangerous chemical along with the inferior paint! Jeez... Well, I'll struggle along with the enamel job and post photos. Of course, the photos will only reflect the portions of the job that came out well. The screw-ups will remain skillfully hidden from FTE view. Thanks for your comment.
jor

 

Are you talking Acrylic enamel, urethane, or both?

 

Aww, dont be so hard on yourself guy, it will look good. I wish I could have painted someone elses truck first, before doing mine. That way, I could have learned from all of my mistakes on their truck , not mine. Try to practice on a old hood or large piece of metal, to get your gun set up right, and to get a "feel" for how to run your spray patterns, overlap ( usually 50%) and paint flow. Get as much light on your project as possible and watch the paint spray pattern as it hits the metal, your trying for that "wet' look, but your moving on smoothly and quickly enough to prevent runs, but not so quick as to leave dry spots. A/E was used for many years, its just older technology now. Keep it out of the sun as much as possible, keep a good coat of wax on it whenever you see it quits beading up water, and it will last longer than you would think. jmho, good luck to you,

 

Urethane has MUCH more isocyanate in it, then enamel with hardner. Go ahead and buy the clear coat too. I painted my own truck, and I used hardener in every coat. Four ounces of hardener per quart of paint. I wet sanded inbetween coats with 400. You don't have to though. You can just wet sand the clear. After shooting two coats of red, and two coats of clear, I wet sanded every bit of orange peel out of it. Check out my gallery photos, and then make your decision. Besides the hardener, I also had to use a little anti-fisheye additive. About a capfull per pot. I used a filtered mask, but no outside air source. When painting with urethane, an outside air source is a MUST. I've painted a couple of dozen cars and trucks, and tried most of the different paints out there. The only drawback with the new A Enamel paints, is they are low VOC. Therefor, you go to spray it on, and it's looking great. All of a sudden, it will start to run on you. Don't worry about it. Let it dry, and then sand it out. I use a smal rectangular, grey stone looking thing made by Meguiers. It's just for that purpose, and they last forever. Mine is 400 grit, and I store it in a galss of water to keep it wet. When it gets plugged, simply rub it on a sanding block with some 220 or so paper. I use a HVLP gravity feed gun, with a 1.4 needle, at 90 PSI. If you run into any thing and you want some advice, just contact me. It might say I'm a junior user, but I'm 44 years young, and have been working on trucks and cars since my early teens.

 

Isocyanates are found in the hardener of both AE and urethane clearcoat.


Ahhh, how do you know that? Mixing ratios may lead us to believe that but we certainly don't know the concentration of isocyanate in the hardener. BTW, when you reach 56 years, you'll consider yourself old, like I do.

 

stevef100s


Looked at your gallery......so that is what 2 coats of acrylic enamel and two coats of clear look like? Looks good from this side of the computer.



Everyone

So at this point I can conclude, no sense in using Acrylic enamel if your gonna shoot clear which has isocyanate , so might as well use the base coat paint, unless money is of concern?

 

I'm telling the truth. Urethane base coat/clear coat paints contan MORE isocyanates then with acrylic enamel and hardener. The hardener used with enamel may have about the same ammount of isocyanates, but the mixing ratio is different. The correct term for the isocyate bearing material with base/clear, is activator reducer, not hardener. The ratio for activator reducer is twice the amount then for using hardener in acrylic enamel. (8:1 AE compared to 4:1 base/clear). That means 8 parts paint to 1 part hardener, and 4 parts paint to 1 part activator. DOUBLE the amount, like I said. Then there is the differences in chemical composition of the types of isocyanates involved. Isocyanate is a broad term that covers several different compositions in the isocyante family. They are all hazardous, but some more then others. The isocyanates contained in AE hardener can be likened to Marlboro Regulars, and the cyanates in Urethane can be likened to Lucky Strike non filters. Both are bad for you, but one type is more so then the other. The final results can be lung damage, cancer, or even death. There's a lot of good info on the Internet, if you feel I'm full of crap.
On the other side of the coin, Urethane paints are more durable. The paint on my truck is just like a mirror anywhere you look, but I also have a stone chip already. The urethane doesn't obtain that mirror finish as well, but resists chipping better. Everything's a trade off.

 

Steve, I don't want to get into a word war here but...

AE is mixed at 8:1 and urethane is mixed at 4:1, which could lead us to believe that urethane has twice as much isocyanate compound but we can't be sure. The reason we can't be sure is because the companies don't release the actual amount of isocyanate they put in their hardener. Heck, some companies even use a mix of different isocyanates compounds in their product.

One thing we can agree on is that all isocyanate compounds used in painting are very dangerous. Some people can have life-changing affects, after one time exposure and there is no way to predict if you will be that person. A fresh air respirator is a must as far as I'm concerned and is a OSHA requirement, if you are in a commercial operation.

Here is one of the multiple links available on isocyanate hazards.

Isocyanate Family
Isocyanate is a generic term used in the paint industry. The actual chemical(s) used in a hardener can have a variety of different names (Methyl Isocyanate, Methyl Di-isocyanate, MIC, Isocyanatomethane, and etc.). If you see the word "isocyanate", just remember you don't want to be breathing it.

If this scarey enough, just remember that in 1984, Union Carbide had a methyl isocyanate release. 2000 died and lets not forget the adverse health effects that the 170,000 survivors had.

 

My intent was never to get into a war of words. I just react when I see misinformation being given out. People were being led to believe that Urethane was safer then AE. Isocyanates don't have to be used in AE, but they DO have to be used in Urethane. AE just cures quicker and more shiny with the hardener. In truth, we CAN be sure of what amount, and of which chemicals are in the hardener and activator. Type into Google search, Urethane Activator material safety data, and then compare with Acrylic Enamael hardener material safety data. It is the law, that companies MUST disclose the amount of hazerdous chemicals their products contain. Sometimes per weight, and sometimes in parts per million. Since I have a little High School and College background in chemistry, I was able to compare the chemicals used in the isocyanates. This is where I obtained the information contained in my post. I didn't list the actual compositions and amounts of each, because I figured that I would be taken at my word. I do agree that all isocyanates are bad for you. The harmful effects are listed a little differently, depending on which company is "glossing over" the MSD sheet. Any chance of damage to a person's health, is not worth the risk. The only reason I felt safe with just a anti chemical type respirator, is because I constructed a down draft paint booth, with great ventilation. I also changed out the filters after every other paint session.

 

So if I use an AE paint and clear without hardner, I would be isocynate free? Would not using harder really effect the final result?
After reading that link, i'm afraid of isocynates causing serious issues with my health since I have athsma, or exposing my family to the stuff.