First, let me say, I am amazed at how dirty the valves/head and tops of the pistons are.

The scratching in that one cylinder may just be from running way too rich (dumping fuel from the original carb and other messes you had?) and diluting the oil, thereby scratching the cylinder. As dirty as the insides are, it looks like it was running a bit too rich at some point.

I have only 5-6K miles on my 390, and the pistons don't look like that!

Is that #4 piston beaten up? Or is it an illusion?

As to the oil pump shaft breaking - that's weird - especially if the oil pump spun fine after the damage, then something else made it fail - either the shaft is a piece of crap (doubtful) or you're asking way too much of that oil pump - is it high-volume, high-pressure, what? Did you modify the pump to push more pressure by shimming the pressure relief spring?

One other thing - those are Edelbrock heads? Do they restrict the oil flow to the rocker arms? Did the rocker shafts get damaged? Is it possible with loss of oil pressure that the rockers locked up to the shaft, and caused all the pushrod mangling?

I'd certainly go back to the guys who did the valve springs and make sure they know that what they did did NOT work!

Keep plugging along!

art k.

 

text seems to have vanished... wierd... got to read all of page one first tho.

Gtex.
Very sorry to hear it... and worse see it.
If you remember, I'm going thru this very situation with my Mustang. At the request of my fiancee, I pushed the Mouse into the corner of the garage and covered her up. For a while I could not even look at the mess, it sickened and more over infuriated me.
3 months have passed, and I'm starting to like the look of the car again, and miss the sound of it. I actually pulled the cover back the other niight to have a look at her. She looked good. I'm even starting to think about a plan of attack... I'm in no hurry now, it's not consuming me, and I'm not comming in from the garage frustrated and dissappointed every night/weekend anymore.

So, to end a long winded babblefest, I agree with these guys, take a step back. When you're ready to go back at it you'll know... don't set a date, let it happen.

 

/off topic...
seems anyone with a signature, has had thier text vanish... hmmm...

 

Just looking at the pics, It would seem to me that you have an interferance problem somewhere...You mentioned that lash caps were installed...Did they check the springs for coil bind?....Are any of the valves bent?...you can check quickly by laying the assembled head on its side and fill the ports with solvent.or gas...you will quickly see it leak into the combustion chamber if they are bent.....If lifter pump up is the problem...valves will be bent...If the bypass valve on the oil pump stuck (small piece of dirt) these pumps can easily produce 140-170 lbs pressure, which could explain the broken pump drive, and would, pump up the lifters...

I have been there done that with a motor..The machine shop I use to deal with had a bent rod hanging on the wall with a caption.....Seed costs money son, How fast do you want to go?.........Hang in there, and let us know what you find....d44hd

 

What do you guys think about these Valve Lash caps? I'm thinking at around 5200 rpm max power and with the 3/8" stems, I don't need caps. It seems that maybe they changed the geometry just enough to be a problem.

There aren't any real signs of interference on the rockers. I just looked them over while on the phone with Smith Brothers. Those guys have really great service. I sent them an email late last night with the link to the pictures you guys have been looking at. He replied early this morning. Then when I called this afternoon, he knew who I was and what my problem was, talked me through looking at the rockers etc. I highly reccomend these guys (Smith Brothers Pushrods at pushrods.net). At this point I don't suspect their part, since it was just one side of the motor. Anywho, I ordered some more pushrods. and I ordered some new rocker adjustable ball studs from Erson. I have not ordered more lash caps...yet....I didn't put a rush on anything. I may go fight with one of my other trucks for a while. I may need one to haul a motor to the machine shop :-)

 

Well Greg!! Im glad to hear your making headway on the project!!! Its sounds to me like you have a handle on everything!!! Thats good to hear!! Now Im kinda worried?

But I dont think you have any Bad luck!!! I just think SH** happens sometime!!!
I know I have had my fair share and then some!! I should carry a roll of TP with me all the time!!LOL!!! See...And you ask me? Why should I put $6000 in another motor when the one that in the truck runs just fine?? I DONT KNOW!!! cause IM a gearhead!

Good Luck Bro!!! Russ!!

 

That is a HUGE amount of carboning for a head with such low mileage. The one cylinder looks like it's gunked up with oil.

If you had a rich problem with the carb dumping gas like you mentioned, it could have been one barrel dumping it all into that cylinder bank. The gas washes out the oil, which takes out the cylinder walls, and carbons up the valves so they don't close. That would explain the "running like crap and smoking" on that bank.

Now, the pushrods are slapping and slamming around because the valves aren't closing, and beat the crap out of the cups.

Sound feasible?

 

Gregs screwed then. Sorry! Had to interject a little levity. No question that this will be a simple fix, all things considered. I'm more concerned with the why of the situation. So far everbodies observations seem dead on. No way the pump sucked a cap, and those heads look way more fouled than they should be. I know you've had other guys tuning and tweaking and to be honest, I'm really beginning to wonder about their competency. Some stuff is just strange though. I would figure that your pump sucked some debri which locked it up, thus shearing your shaft...but with the shock loads that that chromoly shaft SHOULD have been able to take your dizzy roll pin would have sheared in a second. Which makes me think that it was indeed a defective shaft. Weird. Did I miss how your bearings ended up looking? At this point I'd be very concerned with getting that motor cleaned out and making sure no debri was still in the system. I'd also be having words with your builders/tuners once you have this figured out, thats for sure.

 

gtex, dont give up man. i just recently started gettting into engine mechanics, i just got a book and tore in. anyway when i was puttin the intake manifold back on i didnt have a cherry picker so i just winged it and did my best with hands. and then when i went to start after months of work i noticed tons of oil leaking out of the rear seal which i moved when i was putting the manifold on. I was really mad, sad, frustatred, etc, etc. i waited for 2 weeks after i had cooled down and tore into it again and fixed the darn thing, the trick is to NEVER give up, our hobby goes far beyond engines, it teaches us valuable lessons in life, like patinece, sticktoitness, planning and more. you have lost the game if you give up, just stop thinking of how mad you are sit down and figure a plan to solve your problem. Dont give up man!

 

Sorry to hear about your bad luck there gtex... I hope you get this all figured out. We need you in this hobby!

 

Here's my 2 cents. I would look at the valve guide clearences and make sure the valves aren't sticking. The valve sticking partially open would allow the pushrod to impact the rocker with enough force to damage them, especially if it happens several times. Since the damage is only on one side, I would discount the oil pump. Your oil pump shaft was softor defective. I've had debris (a spring clip off perfect circle valve seal on a 400) get through the screen and lock up an oil pump and it ruined the cam and distributor by stripping off the gears. Did it twice!! I would think that if the oil pump failure caused this, there would be damage on both sides of the engine. It also looks like you may be running a little rich on mixture. The number 3 cylinder is all gunked up because that was the first one to ruin the intake pushrod, and it ran under a vacuum, pulling oil past the rings. The scratches in the cylinder...how deep are they? Can you 'hook' a finger nail on them? If so, you might consider a tear down and hone that cylinder, otherwise, I'd run it. If you hone the cylinder, you will be looking at a complete tear down, so you can clean it up afterwards. That cylinder will also be oversize after the hone job, so the piston will be looser in that bore than the others. If it were mine, I'd push that piston out and make sure there is no debris on the rings, replace the rings and reinstall it. What's the deal with the lash caps?? Why are they there? Some valves have a 'soft' head on them and they are required but if your valves are hard tipped, get rid of them. That is just something else to give problems. Oh yeah, Put a couple of BIG magnets in the oil pan, Cheap insurance.

 

how about coil bind then the pieces going to the pan and sucking into the oilpump siezing the pump snapping the pump rod with the sudden stop

 

How did the pieces get past the screen into the oil pump?

There's only one way - surely he didn't reuse an old factory screen with the bypass hole in it? If you spend that much money to build a motor, surely you'd buy a new oil pump pickup?

Been bit by it myself, and didn't even know about the bypass hole until the oil pump locked up one week after being replaced. Hunk of old valve stem seal. THAT'S when I did enough poking and probing to find the bypass hole in the screen.

 

the more I think about it, the less I think the pump sucked up something. Yeah, there was stuff available to suck up. But, the pump spun freely and had no signs of scratching when I inspected it. I replaced it anyway.

I am using a stock pickup. But mine has a metal sheet over the bypass. I don't see how much of anything big could get past the screen.


On a side note, I was working on one of my other projects yesterday. It backfired so loud, 3 neighboors came to make sure I was OK :-)

 

G-tex, try working on your own stuff to tune, heck what are you going to do? Blow your engine up? Someone might have already done that for you. I guess what I am trying to say is that the worst has happened, sooner or later things have to go right. If you wreck it at least you know where you went wrong and only have yourself to blame. By the looks of your website though, you have a busy lifestyle. Good luck and hang in there, you provide inspiration to those of us that can't afford big engines.