In your opinion.

 

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Forget the Dodge for a moment. (Just for the record, yes I really really do believe it's the better truck -especially better looking)

Lets examine a few facts about both the Super Duty and the 04'F150 with the HD package for right now.

Both trucks can be equipt with a 4.10 rear differential ratio for max towing.

The Super Duty uses a much stronger axle design however.

It has a rear axle which uses a 10.5" ring gear, vs a 9.75" ring gear used in the HD F150. This represents almost as much size difference as there is between the 9.75" and the 8.8" rear axles.
With equal gearing, the larger ring gear will have deeper gear teeth - this equates into more shear strength for holding up to the forces multiplied against the ring gear from pulling heavy loads (10,000lbs can be considered a reasonably HEAVY load)

Next, it is a full floating design, compared to the semi floating design of the F150. The semi floater uses just 2 bearings set between the axle shaft itself and the housing. The Super Duty's tapered roller bearings are larger, and there are twice as many
of them. All the load placed on the rear axle of the F150 gets placed directly upon the axle shaft. The Super Suty's axle itself bears no load whatsoever, the entire load gets supported by the axle housing.

The F150's rear axle is held in place inside the differential housing with clips. The Super Duty's axle is held in place by being bolted through a hub at the wheel. If the Super Duty axle breaks for whatever reason (won't be from payload or pin weight if it does)
all will be ok as the broken axle remains in place due to being bolted in from the hub. If the F150 axle breaks for whatever reason(quite possibly can happen due to overloading or excessive pin weight) the wheel will come right off the vehicle and at the very least will cause additional damage to other vehicle components and/or the trailer and it's load.

Bottom line; The F150 uses an axle with a smaller ring gear, the axle must support the weight of any loads placed on the truck, and because of the loads placed on it's smaller axle, it is more prone to failure.

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The ZF 6 speed is MUCH stronger than ANY transmission that has EVER been used in an F150 - including the ones of today. It's gears are constructed in such a way that no matter how much torque gets placed on this transmission, it's gears are always perfectly balanced. It will never overheat like an automatic transmission can under heavy loads. It will put much more torque to the rear wheels because it causes less parasitic loss than any automatic transmission. It has unbelieveable torque in it's LOW first gear. There is no torque converter to worry about slipping.

Just like every other heavy duty manual transmission there is, no automatic can hold a candle to it in terms of strength and durability. The F150 has nothing even remotely as strong as this transmission.

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The Super Duty has a frame section modulus of 6.0 compared to a section modulus of 5.2 for the F150 with HD payload package.
The Super Duty frame is the same whether used with a 5.4L or a PSD. I do not believe the F150 frame or front axle is capable of supporting the weight of the PSD diesel engine. Except for the front springs the 5.4L and PSD Super Duty front ends are identical. This in itself means very little since the F150 does not use the PSD diesel engine, but it further illustrates the difference between both trucks in terms of capacity and strength. It also shows how much more weight the front end of a Super Duty could support while pulling a trailer with the use of a weight equalizing/distribution hitch.
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The F250 is basically the same vehicle as an F350 SRW (only different GVWR's, badges, tires and spring blocks). It has the same 6830lb axle. Same 6830lbs rear springs (with overloads).
In SRW 2wd form, the F350 SRW has a high load capacity of a 4410lb payload. The 250 would be the same with identical tires.
This is at least 1400lbs more than the F150 is rated to handle.
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Brakes are very important in the case of trailer brake failure - which does happen. Larger brakes, and more brake system capacity means less likely chance of overheating them and causing failure.
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In short, Ford is not just saying a 3 valve 5.4L F150 is capable of out towing a 5.4L F250, they're also saying it can outpull an F350 SRW with 5.4L.(since they are practically the same vehicle)

IF inspite of all the CLEAR advantages to the Super Duty, the F150 is still ACTUALLY CAPABLE (as opposed to simply being rated to)of towing more weight, both more safely and more effectively, than the Ranger must be the best towing machine Ford makes.

If Ford feels the Super Duty 5.4L is only capable of towing 8500lbs or so (even being much more heavy duty) WHAT ON EARTH makes them think the F150 can hamdle more? 40 horses?
Not a chance.

Ford has this all backwards. Dodge rightfully takes more into consideration other than simple vehicle weight and horsepower.
The Hemi's HP and Torque is actually derated in the HD Ram's.(Not as much difference as the 2 valve and 3 valve 5.4L's though, but also not as much difference between the half and 3/4 ton Dodge trucks either)Because of it's heavy duty construction, the 3/4 and one tons are rated to tow more.

The Ram 1/2 ton is much more HD than the F150 is - sorry, and those BOGUS ratings don't change that. The SD is the benchmark among trucks- even with the Cummins in the Dodge, and the PSD flop last year that is true. I don't think the SD is ALWAYS best, but it without a doubt a great truck, and one hell of a benchmark.
The F150 is....I'm not sure what it is.

 

I would like to know why this guy is comparing fords and chevys at a FORD WEB SITE. We all know the answer he should get at this site. In my opinon you should go to a Library and pick up a couple of issues of motor trend, or some magazine like that, and get the professionals opinons.

 

1. Because even though this is a Ford website, this particular is titled "Ford vs. The Competition. Therefore, I'd say it's intended purpose is to compare Fords and Chevy's and such.

2. Since when are magazine editors professionals?

 

You got me on the first one, but the what i meant on the second one was that they have more experience on the subject of comparing cars and trucks.

 

sinister73, you have just proved that a SuperDuty should be able to tow more than an F-150. Congratulations!
That's why it's called the SuperDuty, it's better suited for towing. Doesn't mean that the base model SuperDuty can out-tow the top of the line F-150, just means that the truck itself should be better suited for towing.

Also, the F-150 can tow more than the Ram 1500, get over it. You sayng that Ford's tow rating is bogus is yet again, nothing but your opinion and finger pointing and again saying `Ford is lying.` Get some better arguments to support your claim.

 

Actually, his arguments are perfectly suited to support his claim. Everything on the base model F-250 Super Duty is stronger and more heavy duty than even the top of the line HD F-150. Using the load ratings of the tires, the spring rates, the frame strengths, and the axle ratings of both the base F-250 and the HD F-150, Fords tow ratings simply do not add up.

If every single component critical to towing on the F-150 is not as strong as on the F-250 SD, where is the justification for giving the F-150 a higher tow rating?

 

The good Ford works in mysetrious ways.
Bottom line, the F-150 can tow 9,900, there must be other factors that we are not aware of that keep the 5.4 SD from towing as much.

 

still in the face

 

im not sure i dont this right or not but the way i take it is the if you can subtract GVWR from GVW then you come up with the towing rate. if thats so then you can subtract GVWR from the amount estimated to tow to get the GVW. i could be wrong on that. but if its true then 15300-9900=5400 and thats how much the truck ways i dont think so. this is not saying your wrong and i could be wrong but just wanted to know if thats true?

 

Phish00 - You are correct, that specific model DOES weigh 5400 lbs give or take a couple.

The beefed up supercrew 4x4 weighs 5960 lbs as tested by CarandDriver. You can find the stuff out at CarandDriver.com. Then from there go to search and type in "F-150" Next click on the article titled "Four Door Pickups." From there click on page 6 and you'll find the weight near the bottom, the 5th paragraph from the bottom I believe. That weighs more than the little work guy that is only a two door 4x2. Just to clearify for ya.

 

thanks i didnt know and i couldnt find the wieght of the truck anywhere.

 

Dont know if this was posted before, but Ford put out the Tow weight while the Titan was being designed and it was a lie. The true tow weight was 9,900 lbs and they put the 9,500 or whatever so the japs wouldnt make their truck beable to tow more. I have seen a 04' XL w/ heavy duty tow package tow 9,900 at a dealership. No it wasnt a wind drag nightmare trailer, just a trailer piled with a **** load of weights from a gym. I even counted the weights to see if they were lying and it came out to 9,910 lbs.

 

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I'm not too sure about that, but if it's true, it still shows one thing - either way, Ford was still lying. A few more facts to be covered regarding the Ram 1500 vs the 04' F150. The HEMI Ram is rated to tow 9200 Lbs - not 8600. It comes with both manual and automatic transmission options. It also has a fully boxed fully hydroformed frame. Standard payload is higher - and standard towing is ALOT higher. The HEMI Ram 1500 is one quick 20,000.00 truck.
In all fairness, the 04'F150 is impressive as far as payload, and towing goes, but I have no faith in it's ability to pull 10,000lbs around all the time - you must excuse this, "lack of faith" so to speak, but I just don't believe in it,
and if it's any consolation, I would'int want over 9000lbs behind a HEMI all the time either. The biggest differences for me are;

1.)The Ram looks alot better, the only version of the 04' F150 I find at all tolerable, is the regular cab, long bed, 4x4 XL/XLT. And this one is just tolerable, the rest are just plain ugly to me - especially the flareside models.

2.) Manual transmission option.

Also, it seems Dodge is going to be the first manufacturer to start offering 1/2 ton diesels again. Cummins has been working on an engine specifically for the half ton market. It is over 5 liters in displacement, has aluminum heads, OHC design, it's chain driven, rated for 8650lb GVWR applications, it's a 90 degree V8 configuration, has 300 HP / 460 FTLB torque, will get between 14- 19 city, and over 25 hwy. It is funded by the DOE, and is specifically developed for the 1500 Ram.

No doubt the NV4500 5 speed will be standard with this powerplant when it shows up. Dodge will also either need to put the current 48RE auto transmission behind it from the current CTD I6, or they will need to develop another auto to fill the gap in torque capacity between the current 545rfe and 48RE transmissions. Apparentely DC is well aware of Dodge's standing with consumers being based in good part on the reputation of the Cummins motor, there can be no other explanation as to why they would wait on the development of this motor from Cummins, instead of using their own in house Detroit Diesel model- which is already in production, and is also supposed to be a very good motor.

 

Here's the link I found with that information;


http://www.orau.gov/deer/DEER2003/pr...20DEER2003.pdf

Thing was, I was actually trying to find information about putting a diesel in the new F150, but besides this, all I could find was a bunch of reports about a cancelled project from International, the developement costs of which Ford has had to reimburse them for. Also a link about Ford possibly looking to other manufacturers for a half ton diesel, but nothing concrete like this report from Cummins concerning a new diesel engine for the Ram 1500. Anyone else with better luck?