So go ahead, tell me what it's been through- I've pushed mine well beyond it's capabilities too, not much more the truck can give after a certain point - no way your truck clears 10 acres of 40' pines - it would be dead the second day of trying at the absolute most- and within the first few hours of the first day if it's an auto.

Also I thought from everything I've heard, that the Lightnings speed ALONG with having decent towing capability and payload, for someone who needs a TRUCK was what made it so preferable to the competitions offerings, but now suddenly the SRT10 is going about it the right way? Now IRS is a good thing? Talk about backpedaling!

Last, Ford can rate their trucks to tow whatever they want straight from the factory, as long as all the necessary lamp and marker lights were put in place there would be no legal issues for them. The legal problem comes for people towing over factory specs, but the specs themselves come as a recommendation from the manufacturer - who can place them or change them as they wish without legal issue. You obviously havent towed much before, if you had then you would accept the logic that 5 tons is way too much weight for any half ton truck.

The F150 has 40 more HP and 10 ftlb more torque than an F250 with 5.4L does.

Meanwhile the F250 has;

Bigger brakes.
Larger frame.
Heavier front/rear axles.
Full floating rear axle.
Stronger rear springs (same as 350 SRW mind you)
Larger transmission - especially the ZF 6 speed.
More weight -offering better control.
Larger driveshaft / U joints.

Yet it can SAFELY tow less? Yeah, I'm calling Ford BS on that one buddy- the F150 is WAY over rated.

 

You think Dodge doesn't give out their highest possible tow ratings? Selling trucks is a business, buddy, and all the companies are going to try to be the best. You can't tell me that Ford lies and is the bad guy just trying to stay on top, and Dodge has a better truck, but just doesn't feel the need to let everybody know, being perfectly happy with not selling as many trucks as they could.

If Ford always gives out the highest possible tow ratings, why did they mysteriously jump up after the Titan came out? I mean, if they always rate them at their highest potential, and nothing on the trucks was changed, what caused the ratings to go up other than the fact that they lied because they wanted to look like they were on top?

I never said Dodge had a better truck. I said the Dodge was every bit as good and just as capable as the Ford, while offering more power and torque. Perhaps Dodge is smart enough to know that towing 9900 lbs with a 1/2 ton is absolutley unsafe and they don't want the liability to go along with it. Perhaps they know 99% of the people buying the trucks will never tow to the trucks max rated capacity, so they don't feel the need to raise the ratings when it won't help sales in the least bit?

 

Saying anything about brakes in a towing rating shows how little you all know. Your brakes are rated to stop the vehicle at GVW. If you pull a trailer in which trailer+truck exceeds the GVW you should and in some states are required to have trailer brakes.

 

NM

 

I had a 16' flatbed trailer WITH brakes push me right into a telephone pole (it was either that or the car in front of me), and I was using a F-350 dually. So I can tell you right now that anyone who tries to tow 9,000 lbs. with a half-ton truck needs their head examined. I don't care if Ford says the F-150 will tow 30,000 lbs.....if you put more weight on the trailer than the truck itself weighs, you're going to have problems. There is no possible way I would tow 4 tons with a half-ton truck, brakes or not.

My new daily driver is a Ranger with a 5,250 lb. tow rating. Would I put 5,250 lbs. behind this truck? Not unless I had some really really great insurance! Moral of the story: manufacturers tow ratings are not worth the paper they're written on.

 

I agree there . Just a sales ploy there. I wish someone out there would load there new 04 150 with 9000 lbs. in the back. Tell us how it handled that weight. On second thought maybe not if you value your life. Get a superduty thats what they are there for. I dont believe anybody would tow that much with a half ton no matter what brand.

 

sinister73, I'm not going to waste my time on bragging about my truck, but I know that I could clear 10 acres of pine, I tell you that. It's been through worse.
Anyway, you have no rating of what the new Lightning's payload or towing capabilites will be, so don't knock it until you get actual concrete production-truck numbers.
Also, no, they can't just rate their truck at whatever they want. If they rate their truck at 9,900 and someone gets killed because the truck couldn't do it, there are legal issues there. They don't just make up their numbers. Until you disprove those numbers with a better argument than that, then you have no argument.


EV2DEMON, keep trying. You still don't have me convinced that Dodge has just as good of a truck but just doesn't care if they sell trucks or not so they don't tell everybody that the Dodge can do the same thing. That would just be bad business, but I wouldn't expect much more from Dodge.

 

I don't rag on Fords at all. The only 2 things I've said about Ford is that the F-150's tow rating is absolutley ridiculous and wouldn't even exist were it not for the Titan, and that the Hemi makes more more power, and more of both peak and low end torque than the 5.4. Some don't want to believe the Hemi might just have an advantage over the 5.4, but it is absolute proven fact.

As far as saying if it weren't for Virginians there wouldn't be other states, that is pure speculation. That is also a weak argument as to why your state is so great, but I digress.

Oh, and as far as letting TV influence my views on VA, it wasn't TV, I read it all on the internet. I figure it has to be true, everything else on the net is.

 

If Ford hadn't upgraded their tow ratings because of the Titan, they'd still be rated higher than the Dodge. Again, the `they're lying` argument holds no water.

I didn't see IN whooping Great Britain! Why isn't it a great state? Why is IN better?

You're right, if it's on the net, it's true.

 

Posted by FordLariat;

sinister73, I'm not going to waste my time on bragging about my truck, but I know that I could clear 10 acres of pine, I tell you that. It's been through worse.

______________________

So what has it been through? I seriously doubt your statement.
Your F150 must be the "special edition" model. The one that can do anything, antime, and anywhere, because MY F150 would'int have a prayer of ripping out 10 acres of pines. Have you actually tried clearing out that much property with a pickup truck before?
We're talking some huge trees pal, some better than 40' tall and over a foot in diameter, but if you say so.....LOL.

Posted by FordLariat;

Anyway, you have no rating of what the new Lightning's payload or towing capabilites will be, so don't knock it until you get actual concrete production-truck numbers.
____________________

Hey, I was going by your own statement as well as your own opinion on independent suspensions. True it's speculation, but we both know, my statement was true. The Lightning has a suspension very similar to an Explorer, but race tuned - that's no truck, but maybe you should go buy one and start clearing out a few building parcels with it.

Posted by FordLariat;

Also, no, they can't just rate their truck at whatever they want. If they rate their truck at 9,900 and someone gets killed because the truck couldn't do it, there are legal issues there. They don't just make up their numbers. Until you disprove those numbers with a better argument than that, then you have no argument.
_____________________

Why should the burden of proof be mine?? YOU go find proof that I'm wrong! It is my arguement, and so far I have alot more to support my arguement, than you have to support yours. How so? Ford DID just as I said they could do. They had one towing number out, and when the Titan surpassed it, they simply made up a new higher one - without changing so much as one bolt on the entire truck.

Ever hear of semi floating axles? This alone should be enough to convince you that the tow rating is bogus. IF one sould break while under any sort of load - carrying or towing, the wheel itself will come right off the truck - tire and all. What sort of legal issues do you suppose Ford would be facing if one of those axles failed causing an accident on a major highway, and possible loss of life?
Maybe a huge law suit, and then again, maybe not. Either way, Ford dosent seem to be too worried about the matter, since semi floaters are still exclusively used in the F150 - HD package or not. So with this in mind, do you really believe they are worried about possible liabilities for raising the towing capacity of their truck to high? I don't. It was too high to begin with, and they raised it even more to beat the Titan out.

I may not have all the numbers - and I know you don't either , but common sense goes a long way.


Posted by FordLariat;

EV2DEMON, keep trying. You still don't have me convinced that Dodge has just as good of a truck but just doesn't care if they sell trucks or not so they don't tell everybody that the Dodge can do the same thing. That would just be bad business, but I wouldn't expect much more from Dodge.
______________________

Dodge is realistic in their tow ratings. They take many variables in to consideration. Dodge rates the HEMI at a maximum 11,600 lbs tow rating. This is in a very heavy duty 2500 truck. It has the suspension components, frame, and transmissions which are necessary to allow the HEMI to be used at it's absolute full towing potential( albeit a bit optimistic). This truck weighs about a thousand pounds more than a comparable half ton with the same engine, and also is rated to tow about three thousand pounds more than a comparable half ton with the same engine, this represents a difference of 4000lbs in capacity with the same motor because of the differences in the rest of the truck.
The F150 by comparision, is still a half ton - no matter what package it has. Just like the Dodge 1500 / 2500 comparision, it is very different from the Super Duty trucks. Smaller frame, transmission, and brakes. Light capacity springs (MUCH LIGHTER - 4200 lbs vs 6830 lbs) Semi floating rear axle. Extensive use of aluminum in it's suspension components as well. So how does it tow more? According to Ford it can because it's lighter, and has 40 more horses......please.

I absolutely love your sense of selectively applied logic.

 

Actually, yes, I have cleared quite a few pines. No, my truck can't do anything, but I only have one truck, so it's the truck that I have to use for everything, so I make it work, and it hasn't failed me yet. That's enough about my truck in particular, though, again, I'm not here to brag on my truck, even though she's a good`n.

I never mentioned IRS at all until you brought it up, and I doubt that people buy Lightning with moving parcels in mind, even though it's entirely capable of doing so. Think not? Where's your hard evidence other than your opinion?

The burden of prrof is yours because you don't have ANYTHING AT ALL to support your argument other than `Ford is just lying, I don't believe them`. Ford rated their truck to tow 9,900 pounds. There's your proof. Now, where's your proof saying that they can't? I'd love to see it, and whining about them being liars and unrealistic isn't going to be proof enough to convince me. I just don't believe that Ford threw every legal issue that could possibly arise to the wind and just decided that they didn't care so they would just lie. You won't convince me of that, not unless you have proof, and you DON'T. Also, if Ford lies about their tow rating, then what if Dodge does? What if the new SD can actually out-tow the 3500 and Dodge just lied about their rating to make it look better? After all, they didn't have that rating until the SD came out. That's the same logic that you are using with the 2004 F-150.

Yet again, you're telling me what the 2500 Dodge can do compared to the F-150. That's not half ton trucks that we are talking about, the new F-150 is not in the same class as the Dodge 2500, so that's not apples to apples. 1/2 ton to 1/2 ton, the Ford can tow more.

 

So in between when the F-150's initial rating came out, and when they raised it after the Titan came out, what did Ford change on the trucks to make them safe enough to tow 9900 lbs? If the Ford was entirely capable of towing 9900 lbs all along, why didn't ford just rate it as such from the get go?

Also, just because the F-150 is rated to tow more from the factory does not mean that is can tow better or with more stability than the Dodge, Chevy, or Titan either.

 

Stability is not the issue, maximum towing is. It doesn't matter how stable it is if the Dodge can't tow 9,000 pounds and that's what needs to be towed.
I don't know what Ford changed, and you don't either. The reason that they didn't rate it that way from the get go is the same reason that Dodge doesn't tell everybody that their truck is just as good. They just didn't care, 9,000 pounds was enough at the time.

 

If the F-150 couldn't handle the weight, they wouldn't give it a 9900lb. rating. It's been tested to prove that it can, proven fact. The F-150 was originally rated at 9500lbs., 400lbs. is not that much more. You make such a small adjustment seem like a monumental issue.

Same with the other trucks. They were rated at what they could safely handle.

 

Exactly, Ford has already proven that the truck can handle 9,900. If you say otherwise, okay, but whatever.