400 for mud???
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400 for mud???
I am new to the world of engine rebuilding. I have a 400/C6/205 out of a 79 bronco. The rig I am building is mainly for mud, but also any other off-highway excursions I might find myself in. I already have the 44" boggers and am planning on running 5.13's. I have a shift kit for the C6, but become confused on the motor. i would like a power band anywhere from 1500-5500 rpms. I would like to break 400 horses, but I am more concerned with torque. I want lots of it.
I want to run the truck avenger 670, but will go 770 if I need to. which is better, the Edelbrock or the Weiand intake? I already have headers and 2 1/4" flows. Where I really get lost is choosing a cam. I would like a nice lopy idle, but more importantly, for it to perform! Also, what about raising the compression to 8.8 or 9:1 to make power. But it must run on pump gas. We only have 91 octane where I live. Any advice would be great.
p.s. i'm on a low budget!
I want to run the truck avenger 670, but will go 770 if I need to. which is better, the Edelbrock or the Weiand intake? I already have headers and 2 1/4" flows. Where I really get lost is choosing a cam. I would like a nice lopy idle, but more importantly, for it to perform! Also, what about raising the compression to 8.8 or 9:1 to make power. But it must run on pump gas. We only have 91 octane where I live. Any advice would be great.p.s. i'm on a low budget!
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From: spartanburg, SC
Weiand 4BBL intake
650-750 CFM carb
med. head port
larger valves
polished chambers
comp cams 265DEH or 275DEH (lopey idle)cam
straight up timeing chain
headers
351C flattop pistons (9-9.5 CR)
this should be around 400hp and 500tq
650-750 CFM carb
med. head port
larger valves
polished chambers
comp cams 265DEH or 275DEH (lopey idle)cam
straight up timeing chain
headers
351C flattop pistons (9-9.5 CR)
this should be around 400hp and 500tq
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From: Normal, IL
Originally posted by F150daniel
Weiand 4BBL intake
650-750 CFM carb
med. head port
larger valves
polished chambers
comp cams 265DEH or 275DEH (lopey idle)cam
straight up timeing chain
headers
351C flattop pistons (9-9.5 CR)
this should be around 400hp and 500tq
Weiand 4BBL intake
650-750 CFM carb
med. head port
larger valves
polished chambers
comp cams 265DEH or 275DEH (lopey idle)cam
straight up timeing chain
headers
351C flattop pistons (9-9.5 CR)
this should be around 400hp and 500tq
I agree, except on the carburetor. I suggest a minimum of an 800 cfm Holley DP, and a 2 inch 4 hole spacer under the carb.
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Wow. Thanks for the help. but know I have a few more questions. I've read a couple threads about using 351c pistons in the 400, but they needed to be bushed. What exactly is that? I have never heard of it before. Are the rods for the 400 and the 351c the same. if so , would i just be able to use them instead of bushing the stock rods? What would be the expected cr with the flat top pistons? Also, what about boring the block .030 over as well, would that help to make a few more ponies? And lastley, will a gear drive for a 351c fit the 400. Summit has a Pete Jackson advertised as being for the 351 c/m, and then an edelbrock listed for the 351c but will not fit the 351m/400. Thanks again.
Last edited by crossbeed_65; Feb 2, 2004 at 12:40 AM.
Elder User
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From: Normal, IL
The rods are different, being longer and having a larger small end. Just have the rod bushed to the cleveland wrist pin size. Compression w/ flat tops should be around 9:1 with stock heads.
.030 over pistons will increase compression, netting a slight(very slight) gain in power. The Pete Jackson gear drive will fit, but may require machining of the block.
.030 over pistons will increase compression, netting a slight(very slight) gain in power. The Pete Jackson gear drive will fit, but may require machining of the block.
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So how does this sound?
Weiand action plus 4bbl intake
770 cfm holly truck avenger
2 inch spacer
comp cams 265 deh, with matched valve springs
flat top 351c pistons, .030 over
port and polish
351c valves, (2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust)
gear drive
headers
msd ignition
I would go with the 275 cam, but it looks like it makes more upper rpm hosepower, at the sacrifice of lower end torque. Is this true?
Lastley, is there anything I can do to strengthen the bottom end?
Weiand action plus 4bbl intake
770 cfm holly truck avenger
2 inch spacer
comp cams 265 deh, with matched valve springs
flat top 351c pistons, .030 over
port and polish
351c valves, (2.19 intake, 1.71 exhaust)
gear drive
headers
msd ignition
I would go with the 275 cam, but it looks like it makes more upper rpm hosepower, at the sacrifice of lower end torque. Is this true?
Lastley, is there anything I can do to strengthen the bottom end?
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Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Indiana
I put clevland piston's in my 400 and I had the small end's offset bushed so the piston's would sit up higher in the cylinder's.KB make's a full floating piston for it.I'm running 10 to 1 compression.
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From: PacNW
The gear drive is not going to net you anymore power, torque or reliability than a good aftermarket double roller timing set so why spend the money on it? I've even been told by an engine builder that gear drives can cause cam breakage because they transmit the vibration directly from the crank to the cam while a timing chain can "absorb" some of the vibrations.
Elder User
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From: Normal, IL
Originally posted by Bill_Beyer
The gear drive is not going to net you anymore power, torque or reliability than a good aftermarket double roller timing set so why spend the money on it? I've even been told by an engine builder that gear drives can cause cam breakage because they transmit the vibration directly from the crank to the cam while a timing chain can "absorb" some of the vibrations.
The gear drive is not going to net you anymore power, torque or reliability than a good aftermarket double roller timing set so why spend the money on it? I've even been told by an engine builder that gear drives can cause cam breakage because they transmit the vibration directly from the crank to the cam while a timing chain can "absorb" some of the vibrations.
Very good information(I guess that's why they made you a mod.), but you did leave out that a gear drive can cause erratic ignition timing. My money goes for the Timing Chain every time.
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Lastly, is there anything I can do to strengthen the bottom end?
Custom order 4 bolt caps for 351M/400
http://pro-gram.com/catalog/catalog.cgi
A stud girdle is more cost effective, 351C will fit 351M/400.
http://www.f-p-s.com/
A couple stroker motors for inspiration. 667HP & 799HP
https://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/...mID12/142.html
http://pro-gram.com/catalog/catalog.cgi
A stud girdle is more cost effective, 351C will fit 351M/400.
http://www.f-p-s.com/
A couple stroker motors for inspiration. 667HP & 799HP
https://www.ford-trucks.com/dcforum/...mID12/142.html
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18,423
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From: iowa
what do you mean that gear drives cause erratic timing that is the one major advantage of the gear drive the timing is rock solid compared to ANY timing chain as ALL of the timing chains stretch, and usually some within the time that it takes to break in the cam, and will allow atleast 1 degree of cam timing change, and the cheaper rollors will alow as much as 3 deg ( I measured a summit chain in a 302 when I changed a cam to go bigger, the motor had less than 100 miles on it, and allowed 3 deg of cam change)The other major "advantage is" the noise "sounds cool"
But with that said for most applications I agree a good timing chain is probably a better idea, and alot cheaper.
Oh, and I have heard about the gears breaking cams also but as of yet after 25yrs of working on all kinds of motors, from stock with gear drives (yes some factory motors use gear drives) to all out race motors I have never seen this happen
Posting Guru
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From: PacNW
I have personally never seen a broken cam attributable to using timing gears instead of a chain, I was simply relaying what I was told by a race engine builder. I hadn't heard about gears causing erratic timing either and they do sound cool. In fact for anything but a full on race engine that's about the only thing that's better than a good timing chain. So how much is the cool sound worth?
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From: Normal, IL
My engine builder, and my father that has been an auto mechanic longer than I have graced(yeah right) this earth told me that, and that the only thing better than a good roller chain is, well, nothing.