I run the lowest setting that the programmer has which doesn't add that much power, just enough for that little extra for getting into traffic. My neighbor down the street is a retired engineer for international, his son still works there, said that they have programs for the powerstroke that are similar to the one that I have that they run in industrial applications.

 

aslo, my engine is past the break in period, 57k

 

Quote:

Now I have read all of the posts that everyone has contributed and some say do and some say don't, I guess it is personal preference.

There you go. We have now come full circle.

 

I disagree. You have a lab Blackstone saying that they have found that synthetics are not a help for most people. The problem here in is what synthetics are most people using? To my knowledge there are only three are true synthetics in that they start with a synthetic base stock. So of course the lab is going to think that synthetics perform the same as dyno oil because the hydro-cracked "synthetics" that most people are buying are not really synthetic oil at all.

I as well as CLK, have opened an engine with high mileage that used a true synthetic and was amazed at how little wear there was. I have also opened engines run on dyno oil changed at 3k intervals and the engine had to be bored it was so far out of tolerance.

Lastly, a good synthetic will have compounds to condition the seals throughout the engine.

 

What "true" synthetic oil does most everyone prefer for the diesel?

 

I believe that you consider Mobil 1 to be a "true" syn.

The only scientifically controlled test of both dino and Mobil 1 that I have ever seen showed no differences in engines running dino and Mobil 1 after 100,000 miles.

Your anecdotal test? Different engines. Different drivers. Different operating conditions.

Apples and oranges.

 

Mobil 1 is a true synthetic. I would be interested to see what test that was? Every test I have ever seen shows a significant decrease in engine wear between a synthetic and the dyno.

I agree with the different drivers, different conditions however synthetic is a lot less resistant to heat and cold.

Here is one test that I know of:
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/oiltest1.htm

Yes I know it is in a motorcycle they are supposed to be harder on oil and they are air cooled so oil is critical.

 

The test was in Consumer Reports about 5 years ago.

They used a fleet of NYC taxis. Identically rebuilt GM V-6s. They measured the tolerances on all the wear surfaces on the engines as they were being rebuilt. They then ran all the engines 100,000 miles, changing oil and filters per GM spec (5000 miles). This was a double blind study. No one knew what engines got what oil. Even the mechanics. Everything was delivered in unmarked barrels. Oil and engines were not matched up until the very end. They also ran 3 engines on each oil and averaged the results.

This was the most expensive study that CR has ever run. It cost millions of $$$.

After 100,000 miles, the tore all the engines down, measured the tolerances and compared them to the tolerances measure during the initial rebuild. They also noted the amount of dirt and sludge in the engines. NO significant difference between any of the oils, dino and Mobil 1. No significant build up of sludge or dirt in any of the engines.

They also tested some additives like Slick 50 and found no benefit.

CR's recommendation? Change your oil and filter per OEM recommendation with an API-rated oil.

 

First of all the test was for 60,000 miles not a hundred.

"One distinction: According to the laboratory tests, Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Performax synthetics flow exceptionally easily at low temperatures - a condition our taxi tests didn't simulate effectively. They also had the highest viscosity under high-temperature, high-stress conditions, when a thick oil protects the engine. Thus, these oils may be a good choice for hard driving in extreme temperatures."

"Determining whether synthetic oils last longer than conventional ones would require a separate test protect. To try to get some indication, we put Mobil 1 synthetic into three cabs and changed their oil every 12,000 miles."

"Even the expensive synthetics (typically, $3 or $4 a quart) worked no better than conventional motor oils in our taxi tests, but they're worth considering for extreme driving conditions high ambient temperatures and high engine load or very cold temperatures."

http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm - Source

I plan on drving my vehicle more than 60,000 miles. Also, I cannot find any scientific evidence, oil analysis, wear scars etc from that test. I know that the synthetics greatly reduce the wear scar. I did notice that even consumer reports recomended certain additives in the oil.

So do what you want, since I have opened an engine and seen a difference I am convinced of the benefit. In a couple of hundred thousand miles we can compare our engines. Also if you are changing your oil at 3k intervals for $18 plus an at least $12 filter and I am changing mine at 15k intervals with a filter change in the middle - you will be out $72 for oil and $48 for filters. I will be out $75 for oil and $24 dollars for filters. Only I am using Amsoil so I have a warranty that they will fix my engine parts and labor for any unusual wear -- and you have? A few less dollars in your pocket than me, a have to dump oil 4 times more than I do. My time is worth more than that....

 

Your math is all wrong. Oil changes cost me $18.

I have a Ford factory 100,000 mile warranty that could be voided if I go beyond 5000 miles.

OK, my memory failed me. The test was only 60,000 miles. You got me.

You will note that CR says syn. is good in extreme conditions. I have said the same thing. Syn is better than dino. But, very few people experience conditions so extreme as to need syn.

The CR test says what it says. For most drivers, any API rated oil, changed per OEM recommendations, is just fine.

 

My sister bought a Camaro new in 1974. Babied the car, religously changed the oil (Quaker State) at 3000 miles, drove it for 170,000. My kid brother acquired the car in 1987. Drove it through high school like you would expect a teenage boy to drive it. In 1997 at 220,000, we pulled the engine while building the transmission because most of the gaskets were leaking. Beautiful condition inside. Honed the cylinders, replaced the rings and mains, put it back together. This is a carburated 350.

We can all probably produce anecdotal stories about engines that have run unusually long or unusually short mileage. In my expierence, they have a lot more to do with the care the engine was given and how it was driven than it does with what type of oil they had in the crankcase.

"Unusual wear" is an interesting term. I know nothing about Amsoil, but I would suspect that "usual wear" would be the type of wear one would see in an engine running non-synthetics. Therefore, if you use Amsoil and have more wear than you would normally see using mineral oil, they will fix it? Sounds like that extra three bucks a quart is buying one heck of a warranty there. Would you be interested in some diesel I could sell you for five bucks a gallon if I guarantee you won't have any unusual engine wear?

 

How do you get an $18.00 oil change????? 4 gallons of rotella t costs $28.00 plus a good filter will run about $12.00

 

You must not have read my numerous earlier posts.

Tractor Supply 15w-40 dino oil - $0.97/qt.

Purolator oil filter (Sears) $2.99; or

STP oil filter $2.50 (on sale at AZ)

OK. $18 + some change.

Let me explain my position better on syn.

I am not against trying something new or better. Heck, I'm running a TAG and 203* t-stat. If you ask, some (maybe many) will tell you that those two items are a complete waste of money. You know what? I agree that they could be correct. These mods could be a total waste of money. But in my mind, the evidence is that they could work as advertised and they probably aren't hurting anything. So what the hey, I'm leaving them on.

The difference is that I do not tell people without these mods that they are wrong or stupid or mistreat their trucks.

Now, I've looked at all the evidence that I can find on dino versus syn. In my mind, the evidence that syn. will provide me with sufficient real world, practical advantages over dino is just not compelling enough to me to justify the extra cost. If syn. where the same price as dino, of course I would use it. But it's not and I do not see that I am gaining anything by spending the extra money.

The syn. advocates for some reason cannot accept this. They act like I am too stupid to know the difference between "good" oil and bad. They imply that syn. users are a somehow more intelligent group of people than dino users. They accuse (no implied statements here) me of mistreating my engine for using "bad" dino.

I object to such characterizations.

So, if you want to use syn., that's up to you. You need to look at the evidence and decide for yourself. There is no "wrong" decision. There is only the decision that's "right" for you.

I have decided on dino, the cheapest API CH-4 that I can find. That's what the evidence tells me to do. That's the right decision for me.

 

I used the example of my chevy truck in a previous responce. I will expoung on the variables a little more. it is a 350 that produces around 435hp, I pulled the engine apart at 190K. when we went trough it and saw what little wear it had we put it back together the way it sat. The engine now has 245k and it still dynos over 400 hp. I guess that you could consider this a severe condition, heavy right foot and ocasional saturday night drags, but it sold me on synthetic oil. I can state several other compelling examples from the field that I work in now, Aerospace, where they use synthetics quite frequently.

But as I said before I am new to diesels and wanted some sudgestions/examples of what every one was using for synthetics and what you all thought about synthetics in a diesel.
I am considering using Rotella T synthetic with a WIX filter, currently use standard rotella T. I would appreciate any input on what you all are using.

 

I have heard the aerospace analogies frequently. But my truck does not fly at 550 mph at 36,000'.

As far as diesel syn., Delvac, Rotella syn. and Amsoil seems to be the most popular. There are the Redline and Royal Purple faithful too.

Wix makes a good filter too.