They tend to be biased towards foreign cars.....but you need to ask your self why? American Car companies have come a long way towards improving their quality, but they did go through a long period of time when they made alot of crap. Thats what opened the doors for imports and that is why Toyota is now the #3 car maker in the U.S. surpassing Chrysler. The concept of value is a combination of price and quality. The imports sell their cars and trucks very well without all of the sales incentives. The American cars need the big sales incentives to keep the customers coming back. Sales number don't lie, they tell me that there is a reason why people buy an import over an American car even when the American car is backed by big sales incentives. There is still a quality gap between the imports and American cars.

You may think that is just my opinnion, but take this into account. The big three Japanese manufactures (Toyota, Honda, Nissan) all maintain similar levels of Engineering Specifications for their parts and assembly of vehicles. The engineering specification is another term for "margin of error" in the making of a part for a car and the assembly. The Engineering specs for the big Three Japanese makers are the benchmark of auto industry. The American car companies are not yet able to meet those specifications yet due to the fact that it would cost them to much in wasted materials. The wasted materials would come from the rejected parts that wouldn't pass the inspections under such tight scrutiny. Not to mention the re-tooling of the robotics to operate under tighter tolerances, and the re-training of the UAW workers to take that much pride in their work.

By the way the F-150 lost because it was underpowered. When it comes to a truck I believe Power is the central issue. 0-60 for the F-150 is 9.3, the 0-60 for the Titan is 7.8, big difference.

 

I don't understand what we'd be taking a stand about. Its only some guys opinion in a magazine. I wouldn't cancel a subscription just for that.

 

Does your figures include Dodge and MB (since Chrysler and Dodge are owned by Mercedes Benz) [DCX]?

Incentives or not. I look at drive-out. What does it cost me to take the truck home? If the truck is $1500 higher, but I get a $3000 rebate don't I get a cheaper drive-out?

You are quoting sales numbers. Which is more important sales numbers or revenues?

Let's try another angle:
Ford total revenue--$160B
Toyota " " --$147B

USA sales:
Ford 3.5M
TM 1.9M

Ford outsold in Europe by 750K

Ford outsells in Canada, Mexico, and Brazil.

Japan sales:
TM 2.4M
F 30K

Why? Ford tried to build a plant in Yokohama. Japan said "sorry but we are taking the land for public works". Message: You can object, but we will protect. When you are free of competition on your own turf, you can concentrate on winning abroad. When you have competition to protect on your home turf, you can't pay enough attention to other parts of the globe.

You stated alot of good points. I am just trying to show that it may be more complicated. Please explain why Ford and GM are not allowed to build plants in Japan and compete on their turf.

Power is an issue but not the central one for me. Although I don't race my truck, I do want it to have enough torque to pull 10,000 lbs. of race car, tools, and equipment down the interstate.

 

Chrysler is still number 3 in US auto sales. Toyota outsold them once in August for the first time ever, but not for the entire year. Worldwide, Toyota outsells Chrysler, but not yet in the US. I think they will close the gap to 60,000 units short of surpassing Chrysler next year. IMO, I hope Toyota doesn't succeed in this, but the Big Three have to put out better newer products in order to stop it.

 

The only magazine I take seriously is Consumer Reports. Every other magazine is influenced by who bought who what, or who bought who. Advertisers can influence too much of a magazines content.

 

The magazines are not at fault. They've rated Fords as #1 many times, but it's hard to deny that the Nissan Titan out performs the 2004 F-150 in almost everyway......out brakes, out handles, and is quicker. The Titan will beat a 2004 F-150 from 0-60 with a 1000lb. payload out back!!!!

That is impressive. The HP and Torque are similar and the Titan is about 500lbs lighter; yet on balance the Titan will smoke the F-150 with or without a substantial payload. I don't know how the F-150 can tow 9500lbs. I can't see it being safe towing 9500lbs with a empty 0-60 of 9.5 seconds.

In terms of look; "Beauty is in the eye........."

One thing is for sure; the 2004 F-150 has a nicer interior and is has a quieter cabin, and provides more options. That's it!! The Titan is better in all the other categories.

The Titan outdid the Ford with a Monster 5.6 motor. This motor is awesome. Nissan knew they need two things to even be considered with the Big 3, "Size and Power" They got both in spades!

The biggest gripe about the Fords for over 10 years is the stark and non luxurious interior. They addressed this problem with 2004. BEST TRUCK INTERIOR!!!

I own a Ford SD F-250 and now own a Titan for 20 days now. I love both of my trucks.

Ford loyalist should not be upset at people who are buying Titans or magazines that rated it #1. They should write to Ford R&D, D&C, and other departments to voice what the 2006 F-150 should have. I'm pretty sure that Ford is not happy to be outpowered (Engine wise) by the Nissan Titan. Ford will more than likely respond with a improved and probably larger engine with 340-375HP.

Both trucks are good trucks. No the Titan will not outsell the F-150 anytime soon. Nissan's CEO will be "happy with 100,000 sold".

Many true-hard-core loyalist on this forum. DON'T BE MAD! BE HAPPY THAT THE TITAN WILL EVENTUALLY MAKE THE FUTURE FORDS BETTER!!!.

 

What I hate about CD is the whole solid rear axel. They are always talking about how bad it is. You show me something in an independant that is as strong and cheap to repair than solids. You won't find it.

 

i live in jackson, mississippi and iam proud that we have nissan here building titans. i think altimas too and later on they plan to do infinites here . i hope the titan sells well . good for our state. im still keeping my f 150 though.

 

I have to chime in here, I personally find it very upsetting that Ford builds some Super Duty's in Mexico. The pick-up truck is the most "AMERICAN" vehicle produced. It is like importing apple pie from Tiawan! I will NEVER buy any Ford product that was not developed and produced in the U.S.A.. Ford and GM need to get rid of the unions that cause them to have such a hard time remaining competitive, Not leave the country in search of cheaper labor. I am only 26 years old, but have already purchased 3 new Ford vehicles. I would think Ford would like to keep me as a lifelong customer, but if parts and entire vehicles continue to be outsourced to foreign labor I will be forced to buy a "Foreign" automobile that is produced here. There is a lot of talk of where the money goes back to, but the fact of the matter is that the money is only helping the executives of the company, not the thousands of people they keep putting out of work! I will never forget watching on the news in the 80's the stories of all the families that lost their homes, etc when GM closed a bunch of plants to move them to Mexico and Canada. Very sad. I care about all of the Blue collar hard working Americans that loose their jobs every day to foreign labor, not the rich that are trying to get richer.

 

TLD, there is an important provision in international economics called "the law of comparative advantage". Basically Country A is most efficicient when it produces the goods that it can most efficiently produce (relative to another country). But screw that economic crap and much more importantly please note there is no God Given right appointing Detroit (or the USA) as the "best" auto manufacturing location. For years Detroit has whined about import companies selling cars here when the yen was weak (yielding high yen profits at a given level of US $ sales). But Detroit still has an excuse even when the exchange rate is neutral or in Detroit's favor and even when the Japanese/Europeans are buildng vehicles in the US. I wont comment on Global operations but from a US sales perspective, Detroit needs to focus on selling quality cars that compete with the right features at the right price. Detroit needs to focus on building a vehicle more efficiently, more effectively, and more economically. It may sound good in the short term to say "usa consumers must support detroit" but i will not use my own money to subsidize inefficient or inferior manufacturers. I am patient; i have 3 late model fords in my driveway so dont misunderstand. It's just that ford and all domestic manufacturers must know they participate in a global market, and they need to react accordingly when foreign competition begins production in your own backyard. Long term, the increased competition will result in an optimal solution to the market place, to the investor and to the consumer. IMO, cancelling a mag subscription because the news is not to your liking is akin to sticking your head in the sand.

 

You say the F 150 LOST because it was under powered I have some frends who went to the truck show in Detriot and all they talked about was the pulling contest they took the trucks and hooked them togather bumper to bumper guess what won the F150 even pulled the titan backwards the 5.4 engine is designed for pulling and working what a truck should be .

 

the ford is the better truck for pulling; not because of horsepower ratings but because of torque and gearing.

 

This is kind of interesting. If you read the new Car and Driver(March issue) it actually names the F-150 as the best pickup! It is in the "5 Best Trucks " article on page 113. This is pretty strange because they rated the Titan higher in their comparison test in the last issue. Works for me, F-150 is #1!!!

 

o3f150 what ever ford is doing must be working ,number one in sales and climbing.They will be taking potshots however because americans love shooting at the big boss.

 

If new truck sales start to drop, then Ford will look at building a better product. IT'S ALL ABOUT THE ALL MIGHTY DOLLAR!!!