I posted these lists because the thread had taken a detour to the foreign vs American arguement and was no longer dealing with just trucks.

The lists are "Residual value" . That means the amount of the original purchase price the vehicle is still worth, in this case 5 years later. What this means is that while Ford may have the best selling vehicle, peolple aren't willing to pay as much for it years later. Maybe because of the saturated market, maybe because a perception of lower quality.

Personaly I couldn't give a "shoot" about which who sold more trucks for the last 20 years until someone can explain to me why that matters.

I am going to buy a new F150 so don't think I'm anti-ford, but you gotta get your head out of the sand and see that if our economy is going to prosper it's going to have to compete on a global scale.

I'm sure our brothers in Mississippi and South Carolina would rather keep thier jobs building Nissans and BMWs than pay for another private jet for the CEO of Ford.

 

Posted by wahoo:I'll explain.
Automotive manufacturers build cars and trucks to sell them, that is their purpose. Some companies make a lot of money selling a few very expensive vehicles, like Mercedes and Hummer. Others try to build vehicles average people can afford, this is especially true in the truck market. The manufacturer that builds trucks that the most customers judge to be the best balance of capability, quality, price and style sells the most and is the market leader. More customers have put down their hard-earned money to buy Ford trucks over the rest of the competition. I would say customer confidence and loyality are the highest measure of success. And Ford's market leadership of both full sized and compact trucks has been repeated year after year.
That's why it matters, just my opinion.

 

The list of "highest-lowest" residuals is somewhat deceiving, as it's based on a percentage of RETAIL prices. One almost always pays sticker (or close to it) for an import, but large discounts can always be had on a domestic product, not to mention the huge rebates. What's the better deal: a $22,000 Honda Accord that's worth $17,000 after 3 years, or a $22,000 Taurus that can be had for $19,500 less a $3,000 rebate = $16,500 final cost, and is worth $11,500 after 3 years? Do the math- either way, you've spent the same amount of money. But I do give the imports credit for knowing how to play the "resale- residual value" game to their best advantage.

 

Sorry, but imports have so much demand they do not have to reduce the price from retail. People are willing to pay a premium because the foreign vehicles are perceived to last longer and also have a good resale value for the same reasons. Another reason the American vehicles do not have as much resale is because of the supply. More sold means more available later.

When the Japanese companies get serious about the real trucks (I don't consider the T-100 or Tundra real trucks), which are needed for real work rather than pulling a Jet Ski or hauling a motorcycle, I feel they will hit more snafues. They will probably do alright because they learned everything from us and will attempt to do it with better quality. To me it just isn't right to buy the copy. It is like buying the Yamaha "want-a-be" Harley. There still isn't anything like the originals. The Big 3 just need to keep on their toes with finish and quality.

 

Yes the T-100 is the perfect example of how foreign vehicles value truely work.

Also, look at their reliability, I believe that its record isn't that great, and they still use the same 6 cyl. in the Tundra....one leads to the next....

 

By the way Towboat, I think you are right on the money or should I say Sales. Sales don't lie, especially, at these prices.

 

i am not one of those who think products from country A are great, while products from country B are crap. As for how japanese trucks will hold up, they will perform just fine for how the vast majority of light truck, full size truck owners use their vehicle. My 97 4.6 auto F150 has 160,000 miles on it and repairs on it total just seven bucks (for a new oil filler cap). That kind of record will withstand any comparison, but i'll also venture to say there are imports (and other domestics) that are capable of similiar repair records. Look closely at ford's 04 f150 product offering. Ford is producing high quality, and mostly Fancy trucks to suit the weekend warriors and to generally function as a grocery getter/commuting vehicle. Ford is sending the clear message that if you want a really tough truck, you must buy the F250. In the 2004 F150 market that ford is defining (and has been defining since the advent of the 1997 truck design), F150 trucks are for light duty use, period. Ford is happy today because they are selling lucrative trucks at little discounts. But Ford is also playing into the Japanese hands---Japan can and will eventually compete well in the light duty segment (check out the 04 nissan; it is a very capable truck. It is a brilliant truck if you consider it is nissan's first attempt) and the heart of Ford's light truck business is clearly exposed to Japanese competition. Possibly not until 2010 but japanese pressure will arrive. I remember when some of the first toyotas arrived in the USA and people wouldnt spit on it if the toyota was on fire (and for good reason). No one in Detroit laughs at japan any more. Fancy trucks make ford (and chevy,etc) good money today. Wait until Toyota answers with a decent reply to Nissan and that's when the heat will really intensify in the light truck market.

 

Ok, at last someone attempts to explain logicaly why the number sold is important. I still don't agree with the arguement in all situations as I have said in other posts. Too many examples to the contrary.

Not all good foriegn vehicles are sold at retail. I have never paid MSRP. In fact I bought a new Nissan Pathfinder last year $600 below invoice and the dealer delivered it to my house.

 

Nissan has been the weakest link for a while. I do not think they have maintained as much perception of quality and the vehicles have not been as well liked in styling except the Nissan Maxima. Did you try to buy one of those? I don't buy cars, but I bet those are close to retail.

 

Toyota should have increased displacement on the Tundra before Nissan brought out the Titan. That'll cost them dearly.

 

You are exactly right, and for anyone that has not had the experience of driving a vehicle with the 5speed auto, they cannot understand the difference that it makes. I had the 5 spd auto in my 2000 Explorer with the OHC V6, and it would tow my bass boat easier, and better than my F150 with the 5.4 and auto. Plus, the Explorer would outrun my F150 on the same on ramp to the interstate, by 10 mph. My F150 has the 5.4, K&N filter, Flowmasters and the 3:30 rear end. My brother has the same truck as mine with the only exception being that he has the 3:55 gears, and my truck will outrun his in every way. The addition of the 5 speed auto in the new truck would make it a killer truck. I can guarantee you that you would not be reading reports that said the "acceleration is sluggish for 300 ponies". By having the extra gears, the truck is never in a position of lugging. There is a gear for every situation and it really makes it smooth. They have the transmission now, but for some reason they chose to wait till what I hear is 05 to bring it out. I would have brought it out now.

 

They gotta save something to introduce to counteract the competition at a better time.

 

Bigsky,

No, I didn't price a Maxima. I wasn't in the market for a car. We have a new BMW 330i that I got an extremely good deal on. But I can't really use that experience because I bought it in Germany which is about $5K cheaper than in the U.S.

I have had other japanese and american cars. I have never paid more than a few hundred over invoice.

I don't know where some people's perception of Nissan being a weak link coems from. I admit I would put Honda and Toyota above them in reliabilty but I'd also Mitsubishi and Izusu below them. I wouldn't even consider the korean auotmobiles.

Nissan's VQ35 engine has been named one of the 10 best engines every year for 10 years by JD Power. It currently powers the 350Z, Pathfinder, Maxima, and I believe the Altima in various states of tune.

 

wahoo,
I don't really know much about cars myself. My father in law bought his Mercedes "whatever model" over in Germany also because it was cheaper at the time. I was thinking the big three of Japan when I said Nissan was the weak link in perception of best vehicles. Your right, Izusu is probably the worse but were/are they owned by GM and although Mitsu is pretty good in my book, they use to be with Chrysler. I purchased a Dodge Ram D50 back in 85 that was a pretty good mini-truck. Actually, I bought a Nissan 240SX back in 89. It was the only car I ever owned. It had great suspension and ride for the money, but it sucked because it was under powered, no back seat, I had to crawl in and out of it at my height, I hated having no ground clearance, and it was black. That car was traded in on a truck by the end of 1990. I've only owned American trucks since.

 

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