I've owned two Fords and a compact Toyota. The Fords have given me nothing but problems. Some covered under warranty and some not! My Toyota had 185K before rebuilt and 140K on the stock clutch.


As for "radar_ridr" comment on preferring a manufacture that makes and sells millions as oppose to thousands.

Yes, Ford is the #1 selling truck. You figure they have a truck that would have less problems and rate higher than "POOR" on crash tests! (not refering to the 04). The TV documentary was shocking. I would not have my kids in a pre 2004 F-150 after watching that.

Besides why would you want a truck that everyone else has?

My next truck will be a NISSAN TITAN. Purfect size, awesome power, and very roomy for the crew cab. Wish the bed was longer though.

 

I wouldn't be caught dead in a Titan, that thing is hideous!

 

No, I'm pretty sure it is still an independent front suspension. But I'll tell ya' what...I've already thrashed mine pretty hard on the trail and it's made a believer out of me. I can't believe how tough these IFS front ends really are.

And yeah, I saw that documentary. At 5 mph, the F-150 rear end was messed up BAD by a pole. That is SAD. My '99 Ranger was rear-ended in a crash on a 4-lane highway last year and it didn't sustain as much damage as the new F-150 did in a 5-mph bump into a pole. SAD!

 

Check all the data available to you out there... Consumer Reports, JD Power initial quality and vehicle dependability index... foreign brands consistently do a better job of keeping their customers happy. I like my Ford truck, but there's no denying it's had plenty of problems.

We all have a story: "My buddy had a Chevy / Toyota / Nissan/ etc, and the transmission blew up in 1000 miles." How many of your Ford-driving buddies have had major problems? I'm sure there are a few.

Detroit practically has to give their cars away while Japan eats their lunch. But it seems like most of the executives in the big 3 don't know how to react. Jump forward 10 years... I have a feeling that American truck makers will be losing a lot of customers to the Japanese.

Sorry, I'm not trying to start arguments. I just wanted to speak up for once.

Scott

 

The only problem my Ford buddies have had was a bad battery or something minor like a fuse to blow, but I don't know where they (foreign car makers) get those statistics from, I believe its just the opposite. One of my Ford buddies has an '86 F-150 with a 300 Big Six with 305,000 miles on it, everything original except the clutch. Another friend has a '93 F-350 CC 7.3L N/A Diesel with 320,000 miles original automatic transmission and engine. I just don't see where foreign cars get this golden status from. Again, most of the foreign cars I've had experience with have been crap, we had a '82 Subaru hatchback given to us for free, if we'd just get it out of the man's yard. It needed a new water pump and a transmission flush. We sold it the next week for $800 after we fixed that. Also had a '89 Toyota Tercel bought new, it shared some of the same problems. My shop teacher has a '80 Toyota diesel truck that the alternator died on, and they don't sell the parts for that model anymore. He's been looking for about 5 years for one, so he just jumps it off when he wants to drive it and lets it run, and now its eat up with rust. There are a few foreign cars that I'd like to have, but none of them originate in Japan. I'd like to have one day, some Porsches, possibly a BMW, but definitely not a Yugo.

 

The Titans front end is a double wishbone IFS.

Mr Man, you are most likely correct about the Japanese leading in the pickup truck sales. Honda has announced that it is coming out with its own full size pickup. Should be a different picture in 5-10 years. But the real winners are me and you. Expect to get more value for the dollar. Currently the big 3 have a cash cow going in the truck market. I think that is going to change.

 

Like I said, everyone has a story. We can all recall a story to back up our beliefs, but it's hard to argue with actual data. Foreign automakers aren't coming up with this data, it's from independent companies who survey hundreds of thousands of customers every year.

Sorry your FREE '82 Subaru was a piece of crap. What did you expect?

Again, I'll probably always have a Ford truck in my garage. But it's my toy. I expect to work on it now and then. If I had to choose one vehicle to reliably get me to work every day, I'm sorry to say that it would be a foreign car.

Scott

 

American made cars and trucks, and tractors too, no matter the brand, have got the job done for us as long as anyone in my family has had a self propelled vehicle, and thats back to 1940.

Probably the only foreign things we have are electronic devices, such as a Sony TV, digital camera, or something like that, but really there is no clear cut way to determine who or what is better as far as domestic vs. foreign. Those surveys, are things that will never show the true feelings of consumers, they will be biased in one way or another. This might sound far-fetched but, its still possible. They might have surveyed foreign countries as well and you know if we think how we think, they're gonna think the opposite. My preference in machinery and farm equipment is John Deere, and do they have a higher quality than Kubota?, well I believe so. Otherwise, there'd be a Kubota dealer in every little town, like John Deere dealers are. I know tractors are irrelevant to trucks, but the concept is still the same. The town next to where I live only has 2 new car dealerships, a small Ford dealer, and a small Chevrolet dealer. Nothing foreign here. Closest foreign dealer is a good 25 miles away.

 

MW95F250, I love your American loyalty. We Americans, especially the ones away from the big metropolis areas in this country, are by in large brand loyalist. We are comfortable with what we know and have experienced. There are only Chevy and Ford dealerships in small towns, because that is what people there will buy. The japanese companies make real quality vehicles, but the best new innovation, design, and beef (power, because we not afraid of excess) is an All American trait. No matter what the product the Japanese companies have made the concept products usually originated in America. They just make them more reliable, smaller, more efficient. For investment reasons, the US companies will tend to sit on their laurels unless pushed. The Japanese cars of the 70's and 80's made American cars better in the 90's till now because of the competition. I will continue to give our companies the benefit of the doubt when I purchase and I am somewhat loyal, but if we produce crap, I would have to buy foreign. Luckily, the new F150 is a real nice product and I am very happy I bought one.

 

I was going to post a list I saw the other week that listed cars and their problems per 1000 cars but I can no longer find it. I do remember the two most reliable were Lexus and Infiniti, by a long shot.

I did however find residual value lists on edmnds.com. The number shows the amount of depreciation over 5 years based on 15K miles per year. Here they are:

Edmunds 2003 Top 10 Residual values:
BMW Z8 — 45.86%
Mercedes-Benz CLK — 45.96%
Mini Cooper — 46.68%
Porsche 911 — 46.91%
Porsche Boxster — 47.42%
Lexus SC 430 — 47.49%
Acura TL — 47.68%
Honda S2000 — 47.93%
Dodge Viper — 48.00%
Lexus GS 300 — 48.34%

2003 Worst Residual values
Kia Spectra — 74.11%
Kia Rio — 73.65%
Dodge Intrepid — 72.19%
Dodge Neon — 71.50%
Kia Optima — 71.11%
Hyundai Accent — 70.84%
Mercury Sable — 70.75%
Buick Park Avenue — 69.99%
Chevrolet Cavalier— 69.57%
Buick Century— 69.55%


2003 Top Ten SUVs Residual value:
Toyota Land Cruiser — 46.57%
Toyota 4Runner — 46.62%
Honda CR-V— 47.98%
Toyota Sequoia— 49.12%
Mercedes-Benz G-Class — 49.61%
Toyota Highlander— 49.93%
BMW X5— 50.30%
Lexus RX 300 — 50.46%
Acura MDX — 50.70%
Lexus LX 470 — 50.79%

Worst 10 SUV residual values. I wouldn't even consider most of these SUVs.

Isuzu Rodeo Sport — 68.90%
Isuzu Ascender — 68.74%
Isuzu Rodeo — 68.33%
Chevrolet Tracker — 67.22%
Isuzu Axiom — 66.96%
Suzuki Grand Vitara — 66.78%
Oldsmobile Bravada — 66.63%
Ford Explorer Sport — 66.22%
Kia Sorento — 65.57%


2002 was done by class. Top 10:

Compact Car: Mini Cooper
Midsize Car: Volkswagen Passat
Near Luxury Car: BMW 3 Series
Luxury Car: Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class
Minivan: Honda Odyssey
Sub Compact SUV: Honda CR-V
Compact SUV: Acura MDX
Full-Size SUV: Toyota Sequoia
Compact Truck: Toyota Tacoma
Full-Size Truck: Toyota Tundra

I think the list speak for themselves.

 

I think the lists were determined by who had the most plush seats and who had the best ride, not who had the most practical vehicle. I wouldn't kick a hog in the rear for a Toyota. Probably the reason they're SOOOOO reliable is that they never see a day of true work, other than being a parts store runner or a pizza delivery boy car. I'd love to see a Toyota in a truck pull, let's see how reliable it is after that.

 

Some of you guys are nuts. Japanese compact trucks have been sold in the U.S. for more than 30 years. And still, you know which truck is #1? A Ford. An American truck.

Toyota has been selling "full-size" trucks (T-100 and Tundra) in the U.S. for over a decade now. And still, ALL of the American "big three" outsell them.

There is no possible way that the Japanese are going to start selling more pickup trucks than the ones we Americans have grown up with...especially GM and Ford. Nissan, Toyota, and Honda together won't sell as many full-size trucks as Ford 5 years from now. I'd bet cash money on that.

 

Also, look at the resale of the T-100, now that is something to laugh at.

 

How did it get to this?
When I was growing up kids rode in the back of the family Galaxie, Impala or Fury and dreamed of their first car being a Mustang, Camaro or Barracuda. It was the same for trucks, when it was time to go to work the old man drove a Ford, Chevy or Dodge. Growing up we saw how tough ALL of these trucks were and that's what we wanted.

Foreign cars were mostly for the sports car crowd like MG's, Porsches etc and penny pinchers drove VW's. The first Toyota in America was the the Toyopet Crown, remember those? of course you don't because NOBODY bought one! It was not capable of maintaining 65mph. Japanese pickup trucks? You've got to be kidding!

Then in the 70's the oil embargo and emission regulations hit. The Japanese companies saw a opportunity for their cheap little fuel sipping cars. American companies were hard headed, slow to respond, had to deal with labor problems (strikes) and the bad mid 70's economy. It took time but more and more people bought foreign, then ironically complained about the worsening economy. Foreign companies saw a weakness and exploited it.

Today kids grow up riding in Toyotas and Nissans and dream of Celicas and 350z's. When someone says "American workers can't design or build high quality and they won't buy one!" I always say really? Aren't YOU an American worker? Speak for yourself!

Why does Toyota and Nissan build their full size trucks here in America? Originally foreign manufacturers built factories here to avoid import tarrifs, actually they were just final assembly plants for foreign built components. Now It's also a marketing move to try to take away the loyal American's argument against foreign vehicles. Ask Toyota and Nissan how many of their factories are UAW! Ask those companies what tactics they use to keep unions out. Why are US manufacturers building some trucks in Canada or Mexico? Remember NAFTA.

Why build full size V8 pickup trucks in Japan, there is NO market for those vehicles there. The average Japanese citizen could not afford and has no use for a Titan. But in America the full size pickup truck has been the best selling vehicle for decades.

Japanese vehicles score high on INITIAL quality surveys, you know no squeeks/rattles fit and finish etc. That's great if you buy a new one every 3 years and drive it like a car. Now American trucks are getting those details done well also but if you need to work a full size truck hard you need DURABILITY. Every day you see 10-20 year old Ford trucks on the road, beat-up, poorly maintained and loaded beyond their rated capacity still working and getting the job done!

Can the Japanese trucks be beat? They already have been. Look at small pickup trucks. The only small trucks in the US before 1982 were built in Japan. The Japanese had a 15 year head start on the American companies building small pickups. Then the Big-3 jumped in and took over, the Ford Ranger has been the best selling pickup for the past 16 years.

My old Ford is a great truck (it's still in the family), and that's why I bought a new one.

 

I agree with you there. Good points. I won't argue over small car quality, thats where the Japanese really shine, but as far as full size trucks, I think there's a lot of work for them to even come close to American truck quality/durability.