I will do that if you tell me there is any chance it will prevent me from pulling this transmisison again. May I ask you what the results of that test might tell you so I can better understand the "why"? For what it's worth, before re-connecting the cooler lines last night, I did use my air-nozzle to "clear" the lines and cooler of the old fluid. It smelled burned. Here is a pic of the fluid that I drained from the tranny when removing it to swap the converter. This is actually pretty dang new fluid and it looks and smells burned to me. I attributed that to be from the bad converter cluth on the old TC. I think I'm in over my head.

 

If the trans overheats, the front seal will swell up temporarily and puke the fluid out. If you used a viton seal and it did this, that's not good because they can withstand higher temps, but the trans could still be good. You need to make sure the pump is pumping a nice, good volume to ensure the pump is working like it should and lines and cooler are clear.
You probably don't have a trans temp gauge do you? You want to install one asap. This really helps you know what's going on.
Once the trans fluid blows past the seal and looses enough fluid, this is the reason for no forward motion. When you top it back up, if it was a overheating issue, the trans should work again, until it overheats and does the same thing, or until you find the overheating issue and fix it.

 

Did you loctite and use a set screw to stop the front seal from popping out?
Did you replace the bushing in the front pump?
If the drain back is blocked it will pop the seal out.




I use this link for rebuild: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/17...d-off-road-use

 

The seal fits so tight, there's no known issues with the seal coming out of trans pumps. To replace the bushing, you have to remove the pump, split it, and carefully hone the bore to accept the oversized bushing and then carefully line the pump halves. Not something the average shade tree does, and unless there's a reason, like it walked forward or excessive ware, there's no reason the replace the bushing. It looks ok in his video, though his doesn't look to have a notch in the drain back hole for some reason. Not sure about that, but if it had been in for all these years, I guess it must be returning ok. If it were blocked off, it would be puking instantly, not just once hot, so.

 

I suppose I will pour the old fluid back in it to test the pump as you suggested and report back. Based on the color and smell of the old fluid, it's definitely been hot. Considering the mileage, I will plan on rebuilding it so adding the old burned fluid, I guess.... won't hurt anything.

I did *not* use a set screw to keep the new front seal in. Thanks for that tip. I've never heard of or seen that! I used a National 3404 silicone single lip front seal.

I'm sick of the dang truck right now so she's gonna sit until I'm ready to pull that transmisison again. It's a simple job but rolling around the concrete floor at 45 years old sucks.

 

Yeah don't pull the trans. See if it still works and if it's pumping and why it's running hot.

 

try doing it at 70+!!!!

 

For your viewing pleasure kind sir. Thoughts? I hope this shows you enough to form an opinion :-). Thank you in advance! Maybe... just maybe.... I didn't install the new front seal well and it popped out and the "hot" smell was just the fluid on the exhaust? Maybe I can slide the transmission back, pull the converter, and see if the seal is loose. If it is, perhaps I could install it or another new seal with a set screw and try again w/o re-building this ole pig of a transmisison. Or... maybe I'll just rebuild it anyway. I dunno. I'm sick of it to be honest.


And... while I'm posting, I'll share this just for fun. I used an angle grinder to cut the old torque converter in half to explore and learn. Here is that video + a photo dump of each piece of the old converter. This 10000% confirms that the TCC was slipping b/c there is literally zero friction material left. My hypothesis is that the solonoid pack that I replaced due to a fluid leak inside the connector *may* have prevented the TCC solonoid from fully engaging/pressurizing the lockup clutch and that caused slippage and heat which burned the fluid and the friction material. Then... I replaced the solonoid pack but the damage to the friction material was already done and hopefully, this massive leak from the front seal after the new Torque Converter was installed is 100% unrelated and the transmission *might* still function once I fix the leak and add ANOTHER $125 worth of transmission fluid. Maybe... Just maybe!!???!!?? Is this a logical hypothesis in your opinion?


And.... Pics FWIW

 

The lockup clutch is 100% shot. So that explains that. The trans works great now with the replacement converter until it runs out of fluid, so now it's just a matter of finding out what went wrong during the seal install. Take another video when you pull the trans. Before you pull the converter out, record everything. Slide out the converter, go around the seal real slow, and then pull the seal, then go around the pump body, inside where the bushing is really slowly too. From earlier, the bushing looked fine, but lets have another really close look.

Oh, and the pump is pumping great.........and that truck is so clean! She's so worth a reman trans at some point, but I think you can get this running for longer. Just need to find out what's going on. I know the bushing hasn't walked forward. I suspect an odd fluke; a bad seal out of box maybe or something as simple. Maybe you damaged it during install and just didn't notice. Seals are pressed fit so hard, I doubt you're going to find it fell out. That's not a common issue... I haven't even ever heard of that happening before. If that was a common issue, they would come with clips to hold them in, so.
I mean, you had a hard time taking the old one out right? It didn't just come out easy, you really had to pry and to put it in, it went in very tight and everything? Took lots of tapping? You should feel it was a really tight, press fit.

 

 

That last video was the big help. The bushing walked forward. Aftermarket bushings do have a relief hole, but the factory ones don't. If that was sitting down in flush where it belongs, there would be a gap for the fluid to return. Since the bushing has walked forward, it can't return and will push it's way out the the seal. That bushing is supposed to be sitting down in flush, not sticking up towards you.

You'll have to pull the pump. If you think you can get the front the truck pointed upwards as steep as you can (air out the back tires to help a lot). You can drop the pan and filter and push on it from the back side with the front pump bolts out. But don't pry against the aluminum cross brace in there! If you snap that off, you're SOL! Set a large screwdriver across the valve bodies for your pry brace, and then use a large screwdriver to pry against the pump.
When the pump comes out, gears will want to fall out from behind it! Do not let them! They are very hard to line back up.
That's why you need the front of the trans tipped heavily, to keep the parts from falling out.

Ideally, you'll pull the trans, stand it on it's tail, rent or buy a pump puller and replace the pump. That's the workaround in the truck, but you need to be very careful.

If you want, you can pull the pump, flip it over, take out all the bolts and split it. Post another video. If it's worth saving, you can replace the busing......... but there's some work involved in that. The bushing hole needs to be reamed out to spec with bushing and pump carefully lined back up. The bolts do not do it itself.

It's best to just replace the pump at this point with a reman...... since it's not a '95 spec reman trans, any older pump will work as well as that one for all these years.... but if you get a F5 pump now, you'll likely not have to replace it again when you go to reman it, so.

Also, when you order your (either old or higher 'F5 high volume) pump, order this part:
https://www.sonnax.com/parts/2067-fr...back-valve-kit


Optional, since you're right there (you can enjoy firm shifts now, but this can wait for a reman)
If you order the F5 pump in prep to reman your trans latter, then prep it with the transgo tugger parts now also, along with your valve bodies.

Instructions to install them all are here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...nd-towing.html

 

I just went back and watched my original video that showed the pump bushing after removing the old converter and the bushing was flush with the seal seating surface then. It has definitely moved out since then but all i've done it install the new seal and drive 20 miles. What the heck? Suggestions? Thoughts? Thanks!

 

That's what I thought too. I didn't go back just now, but I was sure it was flush when you started. Go to the pump and I bet the bushing is all sloppy haha. I bet you can push and pull it back and forth. If not, no matter, it's shot. If you want to save as much $ for now, let me know. Pull the pump and we'll inspect the insides. I know just how mod these old pumps so the bushing can never walk again. I've been here and done this. I got this t-shirt........ I can tell you though, it's going to easier to just buy a pump, but if you're up for it, I'll help ya....if the pump is still ok on the inside.

Also, to let you know, after fixing this issue on my 200k mile E4OD in the F450 the trans didn't last all that much longer. I did just what you did, converter and pump. I just got another season or two out of it, so (that wouldn't have been like 5k - 8k miles or so with this truck). I can't remember how many miles are on your truck. Just saying, if converter and pump are worn, the rest is likely right with it. That's what I found out. The trans started slipping really bad, nothing broke and I just babied it home to replace the trans. It's time to think things over.

 

Got it. You are correct - I pushed on the bushing with a flat blade screw-driver and it went back flush very easily.

So... To rebuild or not. I have a lot of DIY and even a small amount of professional wrench-turning experience. I've watched "The Transmisison Bench" 16 class video series on rebuilding this thing. Should I do it? Is this "kit" okay if I go this route? https://transmissionbench.com/E4OD4R100parts.html

TBH.. I bought this truck as a toy and to have something to drive while my primary is in the shop. I will be getting my primary vehicle back the end of March. If I can notch a hole in this bushing to prevent it from leaking, put it all back together, and it last another 30-45 days, I can just sell this truck and consider the experiment to be complete. If I rebuild this transmission, it's not going to add re-sale value at all IMO.

If I DON'T rebuild... what is the worst thing that could happen if I grind out a relief hole in the existing bushing so fluid can return, re-instlall the converter, and send it? Would that prevent it from leaking or is it going to leak regardless on me at this point? Thx again.

 

Ah ok. In that case go ahead and pull the pump (carefully as mentioned above). Split it apart and remove the gears inside (lift them up and keep their origination) and post a video or photos to see if the pump is worth a new bushing. Need a close look inside.