Can Someone Explain This…
Logistics Pro
Joined: Aug 2014
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Tenths of volts is not going to make a difference here. We are not working with specialized electronics.
a vehicles resting battery voltage is probably 12.6v
you need to test the solenoid and the starter.
i would disconnect the wire from solenoid to starter, then check voltage at both ends of solenoid, hit the start button. They should be the same. If not, probably bad solenoid.
bench test the starter.
a vehicles resting battery voltage is probably 12.6v
you need to test the solenoid and the starter.
i would disconnect the wire from solenoid to starter, then check voltage at both ends of solenoid, hit the start button. They should be the same. If not, probably bad solenoid.
bench test the starter.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2018
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Not sure, but right now it appears the fender mounted Solenoid was not grounded properly, even though the surface behind the Solenoid was sanded and wiped down with brake cleaner, the fender itself may not have been grounded. According to Cole-Hersee, put ring terminals on a short piece of wire and put one behind one of the Solenoid mounting bolts and the other on the negative post of the battery. Will see if that solves the problem. If not then will have to do the checks you mentioned.
Thanks
mjac
Thanks
mjac
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2018
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When the voltage at the battery is around 12.72 volts, the Solenoid clicks, that is it, it won’t engage the starter.
I ran a 12 gauge wire with ring terminals on both ends with one terminal under one of the Solenoid mounting bolts and the other on the negative battery terminal post. I am going to see how it does then do one of your voltage drop tests on the starter button circuit with the ground wire hooked to the battery and with the ground wire not hooked to the battery and see if there is a great difference. If there is, then that is probably the cause. I think I have the voltage drop test down.
Thanks
mjac
I ran a 12 gauge wire with ring terminals on both ends with one terminal under one of the Solenoid mounting bolts and the other on the negative battery terminal post. I am going to see how it does then do one of your voltage drop tests on the starter button circuit with the ground wire hooked to the battery and with the ground wire not hooked to the battery and see if there is a great difference. If there is, then that is probably the cause. I think I have the voltage drop test down.
Thanks
mjac
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2007
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If the solenoid is clicking, the ground is fine. A solenoid is just an electric switch. Nothing fancy. You put power to the switch [the should be present when it is bolted to the fender] and the switch engages. The power is then sent to the starter.
Again, testing would have told you that.
Again, testing would have told you that.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2018
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You got me now, I thought the Solenoid clicking was a sign it was not engaging. According to what you are saying, if the Solenoid is clicking and the Starter is not engaging then there is something wrong with the Starter circuit and it has to be tested with a voltage drop test or there is something wrong with the “new” Starter. I got it?
Thanks
mjac
Thanks
mjac
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,862
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When the solenoid make a click, the solenoid should allow power to pass through it.
You seem to be way ahead of yourself. Lots of guessing, lots of assumption.
Start at square one. Does your starter engage? Yes or No.
If the starter is not engaging, is there power at the starter? Yes or No.
If there is power at the starter, what is the voltage when the key is put into the start position?
When you are performing a voltage drop test, what are the results of those tests? Battery Positive post to starter? Battery Ground post to starter case? Those tests need to be done when you are trying to start the engine [key turned to the start position]. If you have an automatic trans, make certain it's in park or neutral. If you got a manual trans, make certain the clutch pedal is applied.
Comeback with test results.
Starters are about as easy as a light bulb to diagnose. We have got two pages of nothing.
You seem to be way ahead of yourself. Lots of guessing, lots of assumption.
Start at square one. Does your starter engage? Yes or No.
If the starter is not engaging, is there power at the starter? Yes or No.
If there is power at the starter, what is the voltage when the key is put into the start position?
When you are performing a voltage drop test, what are the results of those tests? Battery Positive post to starter? Battery Ground post to starter case? Those tests need to be done when you are trying to start the engine [key turned to the start position]. If you have an automatic trans, make certain it's in park or neutral. If you got a manual trans, make certain the clutch pedal is applied.
Comeback with test results.
Starters are about as easy as a light bulb to diagnose. We have got two pages of nothing.
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2018
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I will answer what I know right now.
When the battery is tested on the multimeter, static, and the voltage reads 12.72, the Solenoid clicks and the Starter does not engage at all. When the battery is static tested at 12.86 volts, the Starter engages and spins the engine pretty quickly.
When I have done a static test in the past, no current, at the end of the starter hot lead that attaches to the Starter with the starter button compressed, it shows the same static voltage as the battery. I have not done a static test now when the Solenoid clicks and the Starter does not engage.
I have not done a Voltage Drop Test yet. When I do the test, what kind of readings are I’m looking for? You said perfect is 00. Anything positive above 00 indicates a Voltage Drop? What is acceptable? I called Fluke and found out about the min/max button on the Fluke 115 in case I can not see the screen with the leads clamped to the positive battery post and positive starter terminal and clamped to the negative battery post and the Starter case when I hit the starter button. I could rig up a remote button.
Two pages of nothing? I know about the voltage drop test now.
Thanks
mjac
When the battery is tested on the multimeter, static, and the voltage reads 12.72, the Solenoid clicks and the Starter does not engage at all. When the battery is static tested at 12.86 volts, the Starter engages and spins the engine pretty quickly.
When I have done a static test in the past, no current, at the end of the starter hot lead that attaches to the Starter with the starter button compressed, it shows the same static voltage as the battery. I have not done a static test now when the Solenoid clicks and the Starter does not engage.
I have not done a Voltage Drop Test yet. When I do the test, what kind of readings are I’m looking for? You said perfect is 00. Anything positive above 00 indicates a Voltage Drop? What is acceptable? I called Fluke and found out about the min/max button on the Fluke 115 in case I can not see the screen with the leads clamped to the positive battery post and positive starter terminal and clamped to the negative battery post and the Starter case when I hit the starter button. I could rig up a remote button.
Two pages of nothing? I know about the voltage drop test now.
Thanks
mjac
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Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2007
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Your battery voltage means nothing to me. What is the voltage, under load, at the starter? That means way more than your battery voltage at this time.
Google search voltage drop tests. You need to spend time understanding this and what it mean. There will be a pop quiz when you have completed that task.
Until you bring some real test results, you will always be confused on what is wrong and we will not be able to give you any good/sound advice. Again, the starter circuit is pretty basic. You are confused and frustrated because you are doing the wrong tests to move forward and stuck on some thoughts that are irrelevant.
Google search voltage drop tests. You need to spend time understanding this and what it mean. There will be a pop quiz when you have completed that task.
Until you bring some real test results, you will always be confused on what is wrong and we will not be able to give you any good/sound advice. Again, the starter circuit is pretty basic. You are confused and frustrated because you are doing the wrong tests to move forward and stuck on some thoughts that are irrelevant.
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 217
Likes: 12
The tech guy at Cole-Hersee said, when the Solenoid “clicks” and the Starter does notengage ( with the starter button still compressed) check for continuity between the two Solenoid terminals, if there is continuity then you have a problem somewhere else. Which is what you are saying checking for continuity at the starter terminal. I have to find out if there is continuity when the Solenoid “ clicks”. If there is not, that is where the problem is. If there is, then there is a problem in the starter circuit or the starter and a voltage drop test has to be done. That is the wayI see it unless I am wrong.
This was written before I saw your latest post…
Thanks
mjac
This was written before I saw your latest post…
Thanks
mjac
Logistics Pro
Joined: Aug 2014
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If your solenoid was not grounded correctly you would NOT get a 'click'.
You need to test for voltage coming out of the solenoid when it 'clicks'.
Test procedure:
1) Disconnect your starter.
2) Test for 12+ voltage coming in and out of the solenoid, on the solenoid posts.
2.1) If you do not have voltage coming out of the solenoid in the "click" state, your solenoid is garbage.
2.2) if you do have 12+ voltage coming out of the solenoid it should be good, but might not be.
3) Bench test your starter, yes, remove it from the truck, and put 12V on it, does it spin? if not it is garbage.
12.76 vs 12.86 is so minuscule it is pointless even talking about it. your talking about a difference of "TEN MILLI VOLTS", like 0.10 of a volt. 10mV means absolutely nothing.
Maybe your DVM is garbage!
If your STARTER does not pass a bench test with 12 volts, (nobody cares about milli-volts here) you need a different starter.
Heck, take the starter off the truck, connect it directly to your battery using jumper cables, Heck, use a battery with 11V.
You need to test for voltage coming out of the solenoid when it 'clicks'.
Test procedure:
1) Disconnect your starter.
2) Test for 12+ voltage coming in and out of the solenoid, on the solenoid posts.
2.1) If you do not have voltage coming out of the solenoid in the "click" state, your solenoid is garbage.
2.2) if you do have 12+ voltage coming out of the solenoid it should be good, but might not be.
3) Bench test your starter, yes, remove it from the truck, and put 12V on it, does it spin? if not it is garbage.
12.76 vs 12.86 is so minuscule it is pointless even talking about it. your talking about a difference of "TEN MILLI VOLTS", like 0.10 of a volt. 10mV means absolutely nothing.
Maybe your DVM is garbage!
If your STARTER does not pass a bench test with 12 volts, (nobody cares about milli-volts here) you need a different starter.
Heck, take the starter off the truck, connect it directly to your battery using jumper cables, Heck, use a battery with 11V.
Logistics Pro
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Are you going to the small post (key start wire) or the large post (to starter) of the solenoid?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2018
Posts: 217
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You got me, like @1Butcher keeps saying I have to do some testing and quit guessing. But all I know is, I put in a brand new OReilly’s Ultra Starter, new, not rebuilt, went to start the truck and the Solenoid “clicked” and would not engage the starter. Got out and checked the Everstart 900 Cranking Amps AGM Battery with a Fluke 115 Multimeter and the meter read 12.72 volts. Could not figure out what was going on. Jumped the battery with a spare battery I carry and at first the Solenoid just clicked again then the engine spun and it started up. When I got home, I checked the battery again with the Fluke and the Alternator had charged the battery to 12.86 volts. Since then the starter has spun the motor every time with no problem. Why, I do not know. I have to do the tests that @1Butcher suggested to know what I am talking about. I thought it was the Solenoid ground.
Thanks
mjac
Thanks
mjac
Thread Starter
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Mountain Pass
Joined: May 2018
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Likes: 12
Thanks
mjac
Logistics Pro
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