No spark… possible distributor failure?
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 105
Likes: 2
No spark… possible distributor failure?
Greetings all. The ride in question is an 83 F150 inline 6 -300. 97,000 original kms. A Canadian truck. About three years ago I posted a complaint that my truck was squealing but had no idea where it was coming from. Not a belt, maybe a vacuum leak. At any rate I kept driving it because there were no other symptoms. The squeal would happen when the engine was hot and disappear at higher RPMS. It may not even be a worn distributor... something else 🤷🏻
It’s not starting. There is no spark. Plugs and wires are fine. I have replaced the dizzy cap and rotor, I have tried a different/new ignition module, I have replaced and tested the coil. The starter solenoid seems fine, as I can hot wire there. I’ve confirmed that the rotor spins when the cap is off as the engine spins/ turns over. There is no play at the dizzy connection. Not sure if the distributor shaft has bearings or bushings. Maybe worn out. I’ve never had the distributor out. I’ve tried the obvious fixes to no avail and don’t know how to proceed at this point. Do I have a Hall sensor? Ground? But where would I look for a bad ground?
Your thoughts and ideas are welcome… thanks
It’s not starting. There is no spark. Plugs and wires are fine. I have replaced the dizzy cap and rotor, I have tried a different/new ignition module, I have replaced and tested the coil. The starter solenoid seems fine, as I can hot wire there. I’ve confirmed that the rotor spins when the cap is off as the engine spins/ turns over. There is no play at the dizzy connection. Not sure if the distributor shaft has bearings or bushings. Maybe worn out. I’ve never had the distributor out. I’ve tried the obvious fixes to no avail and don’t know how to proceed at this point. Do I have a Hall sensor? Ground? But where would I look for a bad ground?
Your thoughts and ideas are welcome… thanks
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
Likes: 4,123
From: Angier, NC
My thoughts are if the dist. is spinning and you replaced the ICM, can you test it to see if the new one is not bad out of the box like a lot of new parts are.
I would look at the pickup coil in the distributor. That is what triggers the ICM to fire the coil.
There is a way to test it I just dont know what that is but if you search in here for "pick up coil testing" you should find something.
Or you can get a new one from the parts store if you think the distributor might be where the noise was from?
Might not hurt to pull it and spin distributor by hand to see if it is binding some how?
Dave ----
I would look at the pickup coil in the distributor. That is what triggers the ICM to fire the coil.
There is a way to test it I just dont know what that is but if you search in here for "pick up coil testing" you should find something.
Or you can get a new one from the parts store if you think the distributor might be where the noise was from?
Might not hurt to pull it and spin distributor by hand to see if it is binding some how?
Dave ----
FTE Legend
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 30,912
Likes: 4,123
From: Angier, NC
Max I thought you would have said to check the coil horse shoe connection 
It also would not hurt to pull apart the other plugs and give a look see if they and dirty and not making a connection.
I did a Google search for testing the pickup coil and came up with this https://www.google.com/search?q=ford+ds+ii+pickup+coil+test&sca_esv=13e69 eccba0c2d69&ei=5PcxaObhLKKUwbkPp
d0Ao&oq=Ford+DS+ II+pick&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiD0ZvcmQgRFMgSUkg cGljayoCCAAyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSM _FAVD4BliwpAFwAngBkAEBmAGQAaAB4SWqAQUyOC4yMbgBAcgB APgBAZgCIKACtxeoAgrCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgIHECEYoAEYCs ICBRAhGKsCwgIFECEYnwXCAgcQABiABBgNwgIGEAAYFhgewgIL EAAYgAQYkQIYigXCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIKEAAYgAQYsQMYCs ICBxAAGIAEGArCAgoQLhiABBixAxgKwgIFEC4YgATCAgUQABiA BMICIxAuGIAEGJcFGNwEGN4EGN8EGPQDGPEDGPUDGPYDGPcD2A EBwgIIEC4YgAQYsQPCAhEQLhiABBixAxjRAxiDARjHAcICCBAA GIAEGLEDwgIIEAAYgAQYyQPCAgsQABiABBixAxiDAcICCxAAGI AEGJIDGIoFwgIgEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYgwEYxwEYlwUY3AQY3gQY 4ATYAQHCAggQABiABBiSA8ICDRAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAhkQLh iABBhDGMcBGJgFGJkFGIoFGJ4FGK8BwgIEEAAYA8ICDhAuGIAE GLEDGNEDGMcBwgILEC4YgAQY0QMYxwHCAg4QLhiABBixAxiDAR iKBcICFBAAGIAEGJECGLQCGIoFGOoC2AECwgIaEAAYgAQYtAIY 5QIYtwMYigUY6gIYigPYAQLCAhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AECwg ITEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYQxjHARiKBcICChAuGIAEGEMYigXCAhAQ LhiABBixAxhDGOUEGIoFwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMYgwEY1ALCAg4QAB iABBixAxiDARiKBcICCxAuGIAEGLEDGOUEwgIREC4YgAQYkgMY xwEYjgUYrwHCAg4QLhiABBiSAxjHARivAcICDhAuGIAEGMcBGI 4FGK8BwgIgEC4YgAQYkgMYxwEYjgUYrwEYlwUY3AQY3gQY4ATY AQHCAg0QABiABBixAxiDARgKwgILEAAYgAQYhgMYigXCAgUQAB jvBcICCBAAGIAEGKIEwgIIEAAYogQYiQWYAwPiAwUSATEgQPEF zZapeu49V5SIBgGQBgK6BgYIARABGBS6BgQIAhgHkgcFMTkuMT OgB7b_A7IHBTE3LjEzuAewF8IHCDAuOS4yMS4yyAeLAQ&sclie nt=gws-wiz-serp
Dave ----
It also would not hurt to pull apart the other plugs and give a look see if they and dirty and not making a connection.
I did a Google search for testing the pickup coil and came up with this https://www.google.com/search?q=ford+ds+ii+pickup+coil+test&sca_esv=13e69 eccba0c2d69&ei=5PcxaObhLKKUwbkPp
d0Ao&oq=Ford+DS+ II+pick&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiD0ZvcmQgRFMgSUkg cGljayoCCAAyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABSM _FAVD4BliwpAFwAngBkAEBmAGQAaAB4SWqAQUyOC4yMbgBAcgB APgBAZgCIKACtxeoAgrCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgIHECEYoAEYCs ICBRAhGKsCwgIFECEYnwXCAgcQABiABBgNwgIGEAAYFhgewgIL EAAYgAQYkQIYigXCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIKEAAYgAQYsQMYCs ICBxAAGIAEGArCAgoQLhiABBixAxgKwgIFEC4YgATCAgUQABiA BMICIxAuGIAEGJcFGNwEGN4EGN8EGPQDGPEDGPUDGPYDGPcD2A EBwgIIEC4YgAQYsQPCAhEQLhiABBixAxjRAxiDARjHAcICCBAA GIAEGLEDwgIIEAAYgAQYyQPCAgsQABiABBixAxiDAcICCxAAGI AEGJIDGIoFwgIgEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYgwEYxwEYlwUY3AQY3gQY 4ATYAQHCAggQABiABBiSA8ICDRAAGIAEGLEDGEMYigXCAhkQLh iABBhDGMcBGJgFGJkFGIoFGJ4FGK8BwgIEEAAYA8ICDhAuGIAE GLEDGNEDGMcBwgILEC4YgAQY0QMYxwHCAg4QLhiABBixAxiDAR iKBcICFBAAGIAEGJECGLQCGIoFGOoC2AECwgIaEAAYgAQYtAIY 5QIYtwMYigUY6gIYigPYAQLCAhAQABgDGLQCGOoCGI8B2AECwg ITEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYQxjHARiKBcICChAuGIAEGEMYigXCAhAQ LhiABBixAxhDGOUEGIoFwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMYgwEY1ALCAg4QAB iABBixAxiDARiKBcICCxAuGIAEGLEDGOUEwgIREC4YgAQYkgMY xwEYjgUYrwHCAg4QLhiABBiSAxjHARivAcICDhAuGIAEGMcBGI 4FGK8BwgIgEC4YgAQYkgMYxwEYjgUYrwEYlwUY3AQY3gQY4ATY AQHCAg0QABiABBixAxiDARgKwgILEAAYgAQYhgMYigXCAgUQAB jvBcICCBAAGIAEGKIEwgIIEAAYogQYiQWYAwPiAwUSATEgQPEF zZapeu49V5SIBgGQBgK6BgYIARABGBS6BgQIAhgHkgcFMTkuMT OgB7b_A7IHBTE3LjEzuAewF8IHCDAuOS4yMS4yyAeLAQ&sclie nt=gws-wiz-serpDave ----
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,568
Likes: 207
From: Washington
Do you have a voltmeter?
Check the coil positive voltage, key ON , engine not running. Everything needs to be connected as if it was going to start.
Best place to put the voltmeter is on the connector for the radio noise suppressor, its really just a capacitor. It's ok to disconnect it to use the connection point for the volt meter.
If you get battery voltage, 12 volts, you have no current flow. This is a NO SPARK condition. Try wiggling the coil connector and other wires while watching the voltage.
If you get 6 to 8 volts you have current flow. The round coil will get warm if you leave the key ON.
If you have current flow, the pickup inside the distributor needs to be looked at. Should be 400 to 600 ohms. There can not be any signs of rubbing, no wear marks. If the reluctor wheel touches ... it would not create the signal needed to generate a spark..
If you don't have a voltmeter, just do the "Warm Coil test".
Good luck, Jim
Check the coil positive voltage, key ON , engine not running. Everything needs to be connected as if it was going to start.
Best place to put the voltmeter is on the connector for the radio noise suppressor, its really just a capacitor. It's ok to disconnect it to use the connection point for the volt meter.
If you get battery voltage, 12 volts, you have no current flow. This is a NO SPARK condition. Try wiggling the coil connector and other wires while watching the voltage.
If you get 6 to 8 volts you have current flow. The round coil will get warm if you leave the key ON.
If you have current flow, the pickup inside the distributor needs to be looked at. Should be 400 to 600 ohms. There can not be any signs of rubbing, no wear marks. If the reluctor wheel touches ... it would not create the signal needed to generate a spark..
If you don't have a voltmeter, just do the "Warm Coil test".
Good luck, Jim
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Mountain Pass
Joined: Nov 2016
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Hmm, I need some clarification… is the radio suppressor thingy attached to the starter solenoid? Looks like a condenser? I take that off then attach one lead of the VOM. The other lead goes to the positive side of the coil? Perhaps I’ll just turn on the key and hold the coil. But don’t coils get warm anyway?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,568
Likes: 207
From: Washington
On an 1983 engine, I believe the radio noise suppressor is by the voltage regulator. Not really sure. My bad. Capacitor and condenser are the same.
The coil is supposed to get warm with the key ON, in a duraspark 2 ingition system.
If it doesn't, you have a problem.
The warm coil test will confirm the following.
1) that there is current flow through the entire primary Ignition circuit.
2) the ING module is power ON
3) the ground inside the distributor is good.
Here is a photo of the radio noise suppressor, when it is installed near the coil. It's on the mounting bracket in this photo. Your truck might be different.
Jim
The coil is supposed to get warm with the key ON, in a duraspark 2 ingition system.
If it doesn't, you have a problem.
The warm coil test will confirm the following.
1) that there is current flow through the entire primary Ignition circuit.
2) the ING module is power ON
3) the ground inside the distributor is good.
Here is a photo of the radio noise suppressor, when it is installed near the coil. It's on the mounting bracket in this photo. Your truck might be different.
Jim
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,568
Likes: 207
From: Washington
Look on the bottom of the photo, on the coil bracket. That is the radio noise suppressor.
Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Virginia
You do not need a ballast resistor like that on these trucks IF you are using the original wiring. The resistor is built into the harness. If you are re-wiring your truck with your own circuits, then you do need the resistor if you are using the original duraspark ignition.
Cargo Master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,568
Likes: 207
From: Washington
That harness is not available, and hasn't been for a long time. 10+ years ago, I used to bring them home from the junkyard and sell them on ebay. Most of them did not look as good as the one you have. That was before the newer GM style coil over cap HEI distributor where available.
Only the coil connector is available at the auto parts stores, it is a common failure point. A lot of coil connector have been swapped out.
You will have to repair it. What's is the problem with it?
Jim