Starting about 3 months ago I noticed that the coolant in the degas bottle was not there anymore. It took about 2/3 of a gallon to fill it back up to 1/2" below the minimum line on the degas bottle. It still started and ran fine, no real noticeable smoke or loss of power or anything like that. About 3 weeks ago I drove it to work, came home and parked it. I then fired it up and pulled it into the shed before going to bed, again started with no issues (I always let the glow plug light go out before I crank it). The next morning I went to take it to work and it would just crank and crank with no start. It stumbled a couple times but never started. I tried until it was obvious that the cranking speed was getting slower, so I threw the charger on it and took my car. When I got home I tried again, this time with the battery charger assisting and got the same results. I looked around and saw the degas bottle was empty again at this time. I decided to plug in the block heater and tried it again the next night when I got home from work and it fired right up. I let it run awhile, then shut it off and tried it again and it fired right up. I let it set a few hours and it cranked a second longer but fired up again. I let it sit over night again and it did the same crank no start with some stumbling. I finally found my OBD2 deal to pull data and watched while I was trying to crank. FICM voltages looked good, ICP and IPR duty cycle looked good, no codes but a no start again. I plugged in the block heater again and tried again, data looked the same, except the truck actually started.

After some digging through threads and the tech folder I decided to focus more on the coolant loss as it seemed like that may be part of the reason for the hard start. I pulled the EGR valve and it was plenty sooty but looked dry. I plugged the degas bottle cap and teed a mityvac hand vacuum pump into the small line that comes off the degas bottle. I pumped the heck out of it and managed to get it down to 10 in HG and it bled off to 0 within 15 minutes. There are no obvious external leaks and the degas bottle does not appear to have much if any residue around it. I did pull data while running the truck before parking it in the garage and noticed I had pretty good delta, which historically has not been the case.

Apologies for the long story but wanted to get it down. I'm thinking my next step may be to tie a pressure gauge into the degas line and do some driving and see what pressures do. My understanding if the pressure climbs quickly its likely EGR, if it climbs slow, its likely head gaskets. I'd like to have a rough idea of where to focus before really digging in.

Thanks for the help.

 

I agree w/ the next step being a pressure gauge.

 

Not so sure about the “quick = egr, slow = headgaskets” as when my headgasket was bad, egr deleted, my upper radiator hose was firm within a few seconds of starting the truck lol

 

Following, mine starts fine but loosing fluid...not sure where

 

Wanted to follow up on this as I finally got a few minutes to look at it. I cleaned the EGR valve and intake in the EGR valve area as much as possible. While doing that I noticed the stuff on the valve was much more sticky than the stuff in the bottom of the intake. I also popped off the EBPS to see how that looked and while it was knocked completely caked up, it was definitely moist and sticky.

After putting it all back together, it took a little over 3/4 of a gallon to get it back to the minimum line on the degas bottle. I then tried to start it and no luck. It is smoking, like it's attempting to fire, but no start. Battery voltage did look low while cranking, so I pulled the cables and am trickle charging each individually. Ambient temp in the garage was 53.

I ordered a pressure gauge and heater hose so I can check coolant system pressures. That should be here Tuesday I think. I am starting to lean more towards EGR.

 

It's a long shot, but is there a noticeable amount of slop in the gear shifter?

Also, how fast is the engine spinning when batteries are charged and it won't start?

 

Shift lever is pretty tight. There is a slight amount of play, but not much. Is the thought there that maybe it's not engaging the neutral safety switch? It's never not cranked, just not started.

Looking back at some of my data from when this started torque pro is telling me it starts out cranking about 180 and hangs between there and 210, drops to about 140 after a 20 second crank. ICP between 1500-1900 and IPR between 53 and 56.

My last fitting for the pressure gauge should be in today or tomorrow, so I can get that teed in. I also am borrowing a battery tester from work today and gonna check both batteries just to be sure they are good. They have been trickle charging, seperately, since 11/27 so should be in good shape.

On another note. I hit a deer with my daily driver this morning , so this has moved up on my priority list so that I can get room in the garage to work on the daily.

Thanks,

 

Yes, neutral safety switch.

Have you checked for coolant in the oil pan?

Do you have a fuel pressure gauge?

 

What scan tool are you using? Codes might be very helpful.

Look for both Sync's, 500 psi of ICP pressure, and a minimum of 150 rpm.

Sometimes a shorted out EBP sensor can prevent a start, you can unplug it and try.

Also, shorts that lower the PCM voltage can prevent a start (common at the fan clutch or the fan clutch connector).

It is easy to verify proper fuel flow to the secondary fuel filter housing, and at the same time, watch for bubbles while the housing fills. An empty secondary fuel filter housing should fill in 4-6 seconds and can overflow quickly if you don't have a second person on the ignition key - and they need to be quick!

 

Gotcha.

I haven't drained the oil to check, however the oil is at the correct level on the dip stick and looks good, no sign of mixing with water or coolant. I have added roughly 1.5 gallons to the cooling system since I noticed the missing coolant issue, so if it was going in the pan I would expect my oil level would have rose considerably.

I do have a fuel pressure gauge. Pressure has been between 60-65 the entire time.

I did also test the batteries last night and they both passed. The passenger side was a bit weaker than the driver side so I'll probably swap them side to side.

I also finally got all the parts in for the pressure gauge, so I'll try and install that as well. With any luck I can do some test starting and driving tonight or tomorrow. If not it looks like sometime next week as we have a busy weekend with wrestling tournaments and a trip to go pick up a replacement engine (cat 3208) for one of my snowblowers, since that decided to stop spinning on me the other day.

Thanks again,

Baatzy

 

Another update. I got the pressure gauge teed in to the degas bottle last night. While doing so I noticed the bottle was low again, so that means it is losing coolant even when not running. There are no puddles on the ground so it's not just leaking out.

On the hard start front I hooked the batteries back up last night as well and tried to start. It took 2 20-25 second cranks and it caught and fired up. Voltage looked iffy to me while watching on torque pro.

I high idled it to let it warm up and got up to about 3 psi on the pressure gauge. I then took it down the road and on WOT runs to interstate speed I could get it up to about 8 psi. Slowing down to turn it would drop back to 5 psi. I want to do some more driving to check pressures some more.

I also tried again today and had the same results with cranking, took 2 about 20-25 second attempts. I logged this one with torque pro and will try and post that info later today.

I checked codes and did not have any last night before cranking, but the batteries had been unhooked for 8 days, so that might not mean much. This afternoon after getting it started i had B1352, B1360, P0670, P0683, and U0900. I cleared them and will see if they come back. If so, it appears I need to look at my GPCM. Although at 55 ambient temp (parked in heated garage) I would still expect a quicker start than what I'm getting.

Thanks again.

 

Here are a couple graphs of starts. The cold start is from the first start of the day today. The hot start is after letting the truck sit for about half an hour. I have also attached the spreadsheet that contains the data and the graphs if anyone wants to look more at that. For the cold start, I only graphed about a minute of the data. I left it logging awhile longer to get more data.

For the last 3 starts of the day, none of the codes from earlier popped back up. I think they may have shown up due to the long cranking periods earlier?

 

A positive update for a start. I got some time and took another look at the truck. Decided to start checking everything like fuel filter and oil level. While doing that it popped in my head to see if I could get the codes from earlier to pop back back up. I started with the EBPS, then the EGR valve, then the ICP sensor and the GPCM plugs. When I unplugged the GPCM plugs and cycled the key I got the P0670, P0683 and B1360 to pop back up. Since that happened I ohmed out the glow plugs from the GPCM connectors, all 8 glow plugs ohmed good. I hosed down each plug, removed the module and hosed down the module real well with contact cleaner. I then reseated the connectors and tried again. Cycled the key a couple times and the codes didn't come back up. I then cycled the key again and tried starting, truck fired up after a couple seconds of cranking after the glow plug light went out. Not sure if there is a terminal not perfectly seated or if the GPCM is going out, but for now, the starting issue seems solved.

On the other hand I found a little water puddle under the truck, basically directly under the degas bottle. However I can't see any trace of moisture on the truck up above. I plan to add more water tomorrow and see if I can see it dripping somewhere.

Also, while checking oil level I believe its gone up. I decided to drain some off to see if there was anything in it and it was just oil that came out. It did seem slightly thin, but definitely was not "milky" like water in the oil would be. I'm going to see if it raises with adding more water to the degas bottle to try and find the drip.

Just wanted to update, thanks again.

Baatzy

 

I'd recommend smelling it to see if it has been diluted with diesel fuel.

 

When you drained the oil was it warm/hot cause if so that's why it was thin like water. Also degas bottle coolant level can vary a bit day to day depending on ambient temps so if your level is off by 1/8-1/4'' that doesn't necessarily indicate a loss of coolant from the system. You could be loosing coolant though via exterior of the engine only when driving and I sure way to find out is to run coolant dye then UV the engine.