Hey guys,
ive searched through the forums but havent seen anything that fits my particular situation so I'm starting a new thread.

First some background on the truck. Its a 1980 f150 with a stepside bed. It's got a 351m for an engine and a 3 speed automatic (c6 i believe?)
it's also 4x4.

In it's past life the truck must have been used to tow something heavy. It's got what looks like a custom rear bumper with tow hitch and somebody nixed half the emissions crap and swapped it to a edelbrock performer intake manifold with a matching 4 barrel carb.

​​​​​I can go through my whole life with it but I'll get to the nuts and bolts. 9 months ago I decided I was going to have the engine rebuilt. Like any old ford it leaked out every seal and could barely hold oil pressure anymore. So I yanked it out, stripped it and sent it to the local napa that amazingly still does engine rebuilds. The guy who rebuilt it came recommended from anybody I asked so I'm not worried about his work. He short blocked it and when I got it back I put the heads on (new valve job to match the upgraded camshaft) and started throwing components back on. The only major change i made to how it was pre rebuild was the distributor. I swapped for an hei summit distributor. Through my extensive amounts of painters tape I used to label what wire came from what, I was easily able to find my coil positive to connect to it. Now. Here's where I think I F'd up. When I set timing I went off the valves. I manually cranked the engine until I saw cylinder 1 (passenger side front) intake valve close. And once it did I set my distributor and and made sure the rotor was pointed at a point on on the cap, then I started laying out spark plug wires following the firing order. No reference to the harmonic balancer timing marks.

This evening I finally get everything back together. Grounds are hooked up, sensors connected, all hoses tightened up. I finished filling antifreeze and power steering fluid, checked my oil and decided I was set to test. I used a short hose, a funnel and a red solo cup to put half a cup of fuel in the carb through the fuel intake. And hit the starter. After 3 or 4 seconds I just saw 2 jet streams of fuel rocket their way out of the carb (unignited). Did it again for good measure and called it a night.

what do you guys think. Again my assumption is ill be resetting timing, probably with the ol thumb over the spark plug hole trick and actually referencing timing marks this time. From the research I've done it sounds like 351m's like about 12 marks before tdc. I'll also probably test for spark to ensure I hooked the new distributor up right. Is there anything else I should check? Thanks in advance for the reply.

 

Ok I got to ask why HEI as you did not gain anything and not using the DSII dist.?
They both put out the same hot spark and you would not had to gone thru finding the hot wire.

Now this brings up something when you said "unignited" that that wire is not hot when cranking.
The wire that powers the HEI "BAT" has to be hot both cranking and run so check that but ONLY after the fuel issue.

The gas out the carb sound like the float is not closing the needle / seat.
What fuel pump you running motor driven or electric?
What is the psi the pump is putting out? The Edel carbs do not like anything above like 3 psi or they flood as the needle cant hold back the psi.
Most motor driven pump put out 5 psi or a little more. Depending on the electric pump it can be a lot more than that.

Also there have been reports of motor driven pumps putting out WAY MORE than 5 psi.
I had to replace a leaking fuel pump on a non Ford and the new one also spit gas out the vents. When I checked it was putting out 18+ psi.

As for #1 I would pull the plug for that hole, with a remote starter or helper finger over plug hole tap the key till your finger gets pushed off.
Checking the timing mark and turn the motor over by hand to TDC.
Pop the cap and see if the rotor is pointing to #1 and if not fix it so it dose.
Again you need power to the dist. when cranking and run to have spark.
Hope that helps
Dave ----

 

I think you did mess up. Watching the valves method works, but you have to make sure BOTH valves are closed and then you have to watch for the marks on the damper. Intake on #1 will close but the piston can still be at the bottom of the cylinder, not at TDC which is what you need.

You can do the thumb method, but even then when you feel pressure, you need to continue to turn the engine till the marks on the balancer come around to the timing pointer. After that you still may get a cough and have to twist the distributor a little bit one way, and then the other to get it to start and run. Once you get it running put the timing light on it. You can tighten the distributor so you can turn it by hand with some force, but it will not move by itself. Once you get it set you can tighten it all the way.

 

Thanks guys,
Youve both got some great info. I think I'll check timing via the thumb method, then check voltage on the bat wire with the key on and when cranking.

The edelbrock carb was freshly rebuilt with the engine, so I'm not too concerned about the internals of it. My assumption was it was a backfire due to poor timing, but I'll have to look it over as well.

It is an engine fuel pump, brand new. But in order to fill the carb i just used a short hose and a funnel. So I wouldn't think it would be the pump.

I went for the hei to clean up the engine bay, not knowing about the ds2 system.

thanks again for the replies!

 

Also, because I'm genuinely curious, why would the coil not have power during crank?

 

Wiring issue. Something is not hooked up correctly ?

I know it's too late now, but, if you can, you should not be replacing things that you didn't know worked before the rebuild. I learned from the mistakes of others back in the 1970's to make sure the engine ran well before taking it apart and put the same carb and ignition back on. I even went to the point of having the heads rebuilt a few weeks before doing the bottom end.


Here's the wiring diagram.
https://www.garysgaragemahal.com/1980-evtm.html

 

It has to do with the IGN switch as there are different parts of it.
there have been people that did just like you and found a wire that had power with key on but would not start when cranking?
Then they would get a pop when they let the key off to run - 1st clue
We then have them check for spark when cranking and no spark - 2nd clue.
We have them run a hot wire from battery to the coil and it then runs - 3rd clue
If we did not know it before we ask what dist. is installed and that is when we get HEI and tell them to check that power wire for power cranking.

Being he said he has a HEI and posted it popped letting off the kry and did not try when cranking is why I think no power cranking.
Dave ----

 

I'll probably pull the battery wire and test it to ground when on and when in start. That'll decide if that's an issue pretty quick. There's three wires that went from the ignition module to the stock distributor that currently aren't hooked up to anything. I'll have to see if one of those is keyed hot when on and start. Otherwise I'm sure there's something in that engine bay I can tap into. But for testing purposes I may just run a lead from the battery.

it's beginning to sound like my problem is I'm off time and not getting spark on start. Causing the combustion chamber to overfill with gas and find another way to escape (the carb)

 

Just fwiw, my edelbrock runs fine at 6 psi fuel pressure.

 

Gentleman, we have the answer.
I did all my tests and it looks like i was WAY off on my timing. I just pulled the valve cover and checked through the valves. Once I had my self set near 12 degrees before TDC I threw it back together and... nothing.

So in a last ditch effort i decided to jump the distributor directly from the battery. And voila, it started. Primed the fuel pump too.

Now I need to set timing for good with a timing light, which is no biggie.

However, I did run into a seperate issue while having a Buddy kick it over. The ignition seemed tired. Sometimes the key would be in start and nothing would happen. But after a few seconds it would work for a half sec and stop again. Luckily it started acting up after we had gotten it started initially.

I pulled the keyed ignition switch out and it didnt look corroded. How do I trace out the wiring in the steering column? Or should I start from the starter solenoid and trace it back?

Thanks again for the info.

 

Huh? My brain hurts trying to unwrap this. Can you please define “ignition seems tired”? Are you talking about a weak or nonexistent spark?

But then you mentioned nothing happened with the key in the start position. Do you mean no response from the starter? Or was the starter happily spinning the crankshaft but the engine would not run on its own once you released the key from start to run?

 

Just for your info, the ignition switch you are thinking about messing with is mounted on top of the column, behind the dash. What you have messed with so far is just mechanical on top where the key goes in. There is a mechanical rod that goes down the backbone of the column on the outside to the ignition switch. To work on this you need to take out the mounting bolts that mount the column to the bottom of the dash and lay the steering wheel on the seat. Then you can see the switch. If you have a automatic, make sure you disconnect the PRNDL2L1 indicator from the column before you drop it. It's underneath the short shroud around the column near the cluster.

 

I'd eliminate the starter relay before digging into the ignition switch. And what's the SOC on your battery?

 

"Ignition feels tired" may not have been a great description. Essentially with the key in the on position sometimes everything would come on, radio, seat belt buzzer etc. But sometimes it won't. And same with the starter position. Sometimes the starter would engage, sometimes not. And when it did it didn't sound like the battery was dying.

Through a bit of research I did after my last post I think the culprit is going to be the starter switch at the bottom of the steering column like Franklin mentioned. Looks like an inexpensive part that wears away over time. A good starting point to chase down the issue.

 

I think we are all confused on what you are talking about
IGN has to do with spark & if the motor will run be it when trying to start / crank or key let off to run.

Crank / turning over is when the key is turned to start / crank.

When you say "trying to start" we dont know if the motor is "cranking / turning over" or not or it is "cranking / turning over" but will not fire off or run like no spark?

What I got and could be different that you are saying and others think is you turn the key to start / crank and the motor will not turn over / crank.
This could be a few different things as a cause.
I would put a test light, not LED test light, on the wire at the solenoid so you can see if it gets power when the key is turned to start / crank.
When the key is turned the light should light up and motor crank / turn over. If you get power but dose not crank / turn over I would check the connection of thew wire and also clean the area the solenoid mounts as it needs a good ground.

Now no power do you have a auto transmission? If so check the NSS and its plug.
You can so check for power at this plug both going in and coming out to see if the switch is getting power as it should.
Power in but not out bad switch in my book.
Now power in or out move up to check the IGN switch on the column. It is down at the bottom near the floor on the top held on with 2 screws.
Little harder to check as it has a lot of wires but you need to find the one that comes out to the NSS / solenoid if it has power when the key is turned to start.
Dave ----