Ah, I see where I'm failing in describing. By not starting i mean the starter isn't engaging. With the key held on start position it would do nothing, then randomly engage the starter for half a second and stop again. Or sometimes engage the starter for a longer period of time.

I think you're right in that checking the solenoid connections. However I have replaced the solenoid in the last few years and I took apart all connections and cleaned them before trying to start the engine. But I'll test light it to be sure.

The reason I thought it would be the starter switch at the base of the column is because i assumed the wire that feeds the solenoid comes from that starter switch.

 

You are right on the wire from the switch dose feed the solenoid but if you have a auto transmission you have a NSS in between that can be a cause.
You also have to make sure the solenoid is grounded good when it is bolted to the inner fender.
Bad / no ground at the solenoid can be the cause too.
If the solenoid ground is bad and testing the wire for power, test light grounded somewhere else, the light may light but the solenoid may not.

Then again the IGN switch gets a lot of dirt in it over the years and can cause issues.
It may not hurt to replace it. If they have a low dollar or high dollar ones remember you get what you pay for.
More so goes for the solenoid, the cheap ones do not last.
Dave ----

 

Phew! Glad I asked for more details.

Two vital things have to happen in sequence for an engine start.

1) First, the starter system (note I said "system", not just "starter") has to get the crankshaft spinning at the proper speed.

2) Next, fuel and ignition must be present for the engine to transition to running on its own without the starter.

On this forum, we get a lot of queries about an engine that "won't start" or “won’t crank”. We then have to ask for clarification if the starter system worked properly. If the crankshaft won't spin up to the proper speed, that's one problem. If the starter system is operating properly, but the engine still won't run, then you're looking at a fuel or ignition problem. These are entirely different troubleshooting scenarios, so it's very important to know where you stand. No point in messing with the carb or changing spark plugs until you first get the starter system in proper working order.

Your situation, with the intermittent starter behavior, could have several potential root causes. Might be the start command (via the ignition switch) is not consistently reaching the starter relay, aka solenoid. That could be a failed or misadjusted ignition switch. If equipped with a neutral safety or clutch interlock switch, that could be intermittent. Or maybe the starter relay itself is acting up. There could be other possibilities, but those are the main two.

It’s super easy to check:

Open the hood and position yourself to the side, near the starter relay. Have a helper turn the key to start. For the moment, we’re not concerned if the engine actually starts. Primarily we’re just listening to the starter relay. If the command signal is good, you should consistently hear a satisfying clunk from the starter relay. If good, there’s no need to dig under the dash.

If no clunk, or only intermittent, disconnect the small wire from the small S terminal on the relay. Momentarily connect a small test lead from the battery’s (+) post to the S terminal. This mimics the normal command signal via the ignition switch. If the relay now responds, there’s a problem in the command circuit.

Run this simple test and let us know the results. We can then advise further steps to take once we know which direction to take.

 

Alright I had a little time while the toddler was napping to do some tests.

Testing the small wire that closes the solenoid breaker went as follows:
initial testing on that lead (the lead hooked up to S on the solenoid) showed that it was working fine.
Plugged it back in amd hit the starter and it engaged no problem.

The issue came back later on while trying to get the dang thing to run (more on that later), so i tested again.
the light would turn on intermittently when engaging the starter. My friend then found out if he pushes the key towards the dash when in start position it turns the test light on. This leads me to think it's that ignition switch. But I want to know you're thoughts.

Now on To the general issue of it starting. I need to find a wire that is hot when key is in start and on, I haven't done any research yet but does anybody know something I can tap onto? Right now I'm doing my testing with a lead directly to the battery.

Also I can't get it to run for very long. Last night when I got it to run it ran for maybe 10 or 15 seconds, and sputtered out. As I recall it shot fuel out the carb yet again. At the same time the exhaust was bluish and it smelled of gas.

Today it started for 3 seconds and died, then it acted like it wanted to start but didn't before eventually sounding like there was no compression. After the initial 3 second run it would periodically shoot gas out the carb again.

I checked timing with a timing light while my friend hit the starter and it was OK, about 10 ticks before TDC.

to me it sounds like it's getting alot of gas. And eventually flooding the chamber.
What do you think?

As a recap:
key only engages starter when pushed towards dash
I need a wire that is keyed hot when in on and start.
Cant get the engine to run longer than 10 seconds.

 

First I would do is try and adjust the IGN switch.
I cant remember if the switch has to be off or in run but there is a hole in the body of the switch you can put a drill bit thru so it lines everything up and you bolt it down.
If you do a search for IGN switch adjustment it should give the size bit and if off or run.
That may fix, fingers crossed, the key start issue if not I would replace the switch.

As for the start / run power to the dist. I want to say blue / white wire or white / blue that went to the coil +.
You have a HEI as a test could run a jumper wire from battery to the dist. and as long as the wire is hooked up it should have spark and run.

Dont remember the fuel pump you have but if you have rubber hose before the pump pinch off the rubber hose to stop fuel to the carb and see if it runs with out stalling till the carb runs out of fuel.
Dave ----

 

From where out of the carb is gas being shot out of?

 

You have a couple different problems stacked on top of each other. And they are totally different systems. I think I would keep your temporary hot wire to the battery for the ignition, if you would like to get the engine to run and get the carb and timing problems sorted. Once you get the engine starting and running good with the temporary hot wires being used and get the other problems sorted with the engine, then I would concentrate on the ignition switch problems.

 

"I need to find a wire that is hot when key is in start and on,"

Back in post #6 someone posted a link to the wiring, which is on page 17 in that link, does that help you find the wires you are looking for.

 

Alright guys, ive decided to ignore the other issues (ignition switch and on/start hot for the distributor), and focus on just getting it up amd running.

one of you asked for where the gas was shooting from, ill include a screenshot of the video I took that shows the fuel rocket.

today I reset timing. Again. This time directly at TDC. I also put the timing light on each wire to ensure it was getting voltage when my friend hit the starter.

I went through the carb, made sure nothing seemed off after watching some videos on what to check in terms of float needles and jets. Everything looked good. Then I replaced the carb and added an inline fuel filter and pressure regulator between the pump and the carb to ensure it's getting regulated clean gas. Its set at 5 psi.

Upon start it ran maybe 3-5 seconds and slowly sputtered out. And again wouldn't start. Hitting the gas pedal while turning over the engine makes it sound like it wants to, but also launches gas out the carb. but otherwise its just the starter engaging and no sounds of combustion.

The whole time working on it tonight I had to chant "i enjoy the challenge, I enjoy the challenge" to get me through it. And I do, but I'm also looking forward to getting this on the road.

let me know what you think.

 

You can't just set the timing and then leave it alone. You are in the ballpark, it wants to run. But the engine will be cold. Once you get it running, keep it revved and if it wants to quit, quickly pat the gas to feed it fuel. If you can keep it running, and you have enough gas in it, keep it running for awhile to warm it up. If you can't keep it running, turn the distributor just a little bit a certain direction and try it again. If it is worse, turn the distributor back to where it was and then turn it a smidge beyond that the other way.

Your goal is to get the engine warmed up and get it running by itself. It may take awhile to warm it up. Once you get it, make sure the vacuum line is off the distributor and plugged, and then put the timing light on it and set the timing to 10BTDC. This is with it idling at a reasonably normal speed. You can then call the timing set after this. While you have it warmed up adjust the idle mixture screws on the carb. It must be idling at a somewhat normal speed to adjust this. You can adjust the idle speed screw through all this. The idle mixture screws are the same as the timing. You can't turn them 1.5 turns out and then leave them. For it to run it's best, you need to adjust these in and out till it runs the highest rpm and the smoothest. You may need to re-adjust the idle speed while doing this.

 

Does this help ? As to why fuel is spraying.

https://www.google.com/search?q=why+...hrome&ie=UTF-8

 

Fuel coming out that hole at the back is the vent for the rear float bowl and the needle / seat is not stopping the fuel.
I dont know that carb is there a way to adjust the float level when the carb is together and bolted on the motor like Holley's?
Sometimes tapping on the carb by the needle / seat can get a stuck float to seat again.

If you can pinch off the fuel line to the carb dose it still come out when you try and start / run the motor?
If you take the carb apart again can you swap the front & rear needle and seats to see if the issue moves?
There is something not right with that carb for sure.
Dave ----

 

I'm wondering if, as stated in that link, the bowls don't have enough fuel in them, as the engine has not run very long...right ? Hopefully the OP knows he should give it gas to keep the engine running, by pushing on the gas peddle once it starts and bring the rpm up to 2500 to break in the cam.

I do realize he may have other issues too...

 

I do have the break in procedure for the cam (which does include going up to 2500 rpm), But I am hesitant to do any break in until I can get the damn thing to run.

Maybe the fuel pump was pushing too much pressure and bent the float to allow fuel to keep getting in. so now even though I have a pressure regulator, the floats are out of adjustment and still allowing the carb to flood.

with what franklin2 mentioned, im doubtful timing can be so far off as to not run. But I've been wrong before, and obviously wrong about something or this truck would be on the road by now 🤣

I think maybe the next step is to take the carb apart again and check the float clearances, if it's out of adjustment, fix that then try. If I'm still not getting it to start and run, then take each spark plug out ground it to the frame, crank the engine to check for spark and confirm once and for all that I have no spark issues. And if that's all good then start tweaking the distributor to see if I can get it up and running.

once it will run, I'll keep the rpms up to break in the new cam. Once at operating temp I can make make final timing adjustment with the vacuum advance hose pinched, set my idle screws on the carb and hopefully have a well running truck I get to take on backroads to finish break in.

let me know if any of you see a flaw in my logic. And thanks again for all the assistance.

 

You can get a spark tester from Harbor Fright that clips on the plug wire and shows spark, that might be easier than the old way of doing it. Just crank the engine over and watch for the light on the tester, move to next plug and repeat.

If the carb worked before rebuild of the engine, it should be fine now.

Why is the fuel pump now putting out so much pressure, was that old fuel pump, that I assume is on the timing chain cover, new ?

Have you tried to give it fuel once it starts, to keep it running ?

Post #1 say's you only changed to a new Distributor, this shouldn't be that difficult. Can you put the old dizzy back in ? Do you know that one worked ?