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Old Aug 6, 2024 | 10:40 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by GRANPA49
2009 F250 4x4 I've replaced a few things in the front end and have narrowed my front end problems down to two symptoms. First of all, there is a shudder which comes and goes every few seconds while travelling straight down the highway. Second, any time i enter into a prolonged left or right hand curve a wobble starts up. Not the death wobble but sort of a mini death wobble. Looking for suggestions to pinpoint the cause of those two problems. Recent improvements include bilstein damper, center link and tie rod end and track bar bushing . No movement visible in ball joints or tie rod ends.
I'm chasing down almost the exact same symptoms except mine's a 2002 2WD. How worn are your tires? Mine were within a couple thousand of needing replaced anyway and felt out of balance/out of round. I can't find any play in any of the components to indicate the kind of wear I would expect from these symptoms. A front-end guy I trust said to get new tires before I brought it to him to diagnose. I put those on yesterday and the extreme shaking has gone away, but you can still feel a very slight shudder (that could be the roads though). I'll take it in this week to find out if it actually was the tires or if the new ones are just masking the problem. Only thing replaced on the front end in 20+ years is the ball joints, so something is bound to be worn out. I'll let you know what he finds. It won't be exactly like yours, but ballpark enough to maybe give you something to look into.

I might end up just rebuilding the entire front end myself, but this guy has been pretty reasonable and honest in the past which is why the shop I worked at used him before they got their own alignment machines. Like others said, an "alignment shop" might not do the diagnosis/work to really figure out your issue. Find a front-end/suspension shop or repair shop that also does alignments.
 
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Old Aug 8, 2024 | 10:24 AM
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Just to follow up. Had mine checked out. They said it was most likely the tires causing my issues with the violent shake. Everything looked good except the axle pivot bushings have been eaten away by an oil leak and those need to be replaced. Once I fix the oil leak, I'll replace those, but tires seem to be the cause for me. Again, 2WD here, so you might not have the exact issue, but worth looking at your tires.
 
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Old Aug 9, 2024 | 09:35 PM
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A couple of weeks ago I had our Enclave in a shop which was recommended by a dealership for a front end alignment. The Enclave is driving better now than ever and riding in it is great. I went by there today to talk to them about the F250. They are familiar with the story and have worked on them before. They said that I need to bring the truck in and let them look at it and then they can tell me more about what they think it needs. So I'm taking it in Monday. I sprayed penetrant all around the bushings this evening. Tomorrow I might even break them loose just so it won't be so hard on them on Monday. After looking at them I know now that the last front end guy I carried it to never adjusted anything more than toe-in. I noticed that my tires are waring more on the outside. I'll see what the guy says Monday. The person I spoke with today said that the owner was a front end guy himself and that his grandson is the current front end man for the shop. That sounds like a promising scenario. Won't know until I try them.
 
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Old Aug 10, 2024 | 02:41 PM
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Now I have another question. I'm seeing specs which indicate that stock caster is roughly 3 degrees. I've read that it needs to be 5 degrees to get a smooth ride. Then I see bushings that are plus/minus 2 degrees. Does that mean they are 2 degrees over the factory 3 degrees for a total of 5 degrees?
 
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Old Aug 10, 2024 | 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by GRANPA49
Now I have another question. I'm seeing specs which indicate that stock caster is roughly 3 degrees. I've read that it needs to be 5 degrees to get a smooth ride. Then I see bushings that are plus/minus 2 degrees. Does that mean they are 2 degrees over the factory 3 degrees for a total of 5 degrees?
You already asked that question, and it was answered (See post # 11 on the first page of this thread).

For convenience sake , the applicable portion of post #11 is copy & pasted below;

You’d have to figure out what degree bushing is in there now. Very often, but not always, the factory is a 0 bushing. Say if a +2 bushing was in there now, and you wanted to add 4 more, then you'd need a +6 bushing

...
 
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Old Aug 10, 2024 | 07:50 PM
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And that +6 would be in addition to the nominal design caster built into the axle housing. If I got that right, then I understand.

I removed and cleaned my bushings so I could know what is in the truck now. PSGR side is 0 deg / +0.4 deg., DRVR side is +0.12 deg/+0.4 deg. Monday morning I will get the readings from the frontend shop and see where it sits. I have another question: does 0 deg/+0.4 deg mean 0 deg caster/+0.4 deg camber or is it the other way around? I've searched for this answer and every other link contradicts the one before it.

Another source for the alignment specs give:
Caster between 2.2 and 4.9
camber between -0.5 and + 0.5
toe in 0.12 min to 0.18 max for each tire

I asked earlier "What Camber should I look for" and got the response from 5 to 8 degrees. I'm thinking that would be the correct answer for caster, but it the same for camber?


 
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Old Aug 12, 2024 | 02:29 PM
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I met the guys in the new (to me) old (owner looks 70, grandson 30) shop. They are not a tire store but an actual garage. Upon checking my truck they came back to me with the following report. Both of my lower ball joints need replacing (and they added "You might as well do the uppers while you are at it"), the trackbar ball joint should be replaced, the trackbar should be replaced and last but not least, the outer tie rod end driver's side should be replaced.

I have ordered the parts and they should trickle in over the next three days. Overall the price wasn't as bad as I expected. Acting on their recommendation I ordered Moog. That is a departure from what I have done up to now. The shop owner told me that if I got Moog or Precision parts in his opinion they would be as good as Ford. I'm trusting him at this time.

Due to the wear in the ball joints they did not try to check the alignment. I asked them what they did to find the worn parts because I wasn't able to find them. His answer was "We got pretty aggressive with it".


 
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Old Aug 12, 2024 | 03:30 PM
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So, a shop wants to fire the parts cannon at your truck, to correct issues you don’t have ( or at least haven’t said anything about so far), and dodged the question when you asked them how they determined those parts were bad,,,sounds about right for most shops.

Lets us know what happens/ how it works out when the work gets done.
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Old Aug 14, 2024 | 10:09 PM
  #24  
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Parts cannon, perhaps. I have noticed that when i hit a bump it seems as if the front end is a bunch of loose parts. Perhaps I wasn't able to wobble the tires enough to see the problems. The truck has 148,000 miles on it and it is probably about time to be changing some of this stuff. So we will see. Parts started showing up today and I expect more tomorrow. I plan to get started breaking things down in the morning. I sorta dread it because replacing the ball joints is a mamoth sized job.Thankfully it's all covered on Youtube. Having a lift would be a definite plus but I'll be working in the driveway with the truck up on blocks (wood, not concrete!). The act of getting up and down is a lot harder at my age than it used to be. High of 95 and humidity around 90%. That just adds to the fun.
 
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Old Aug 15, 2024 | 12:33 AM
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Do a little google searching/ reading around the internet about moog parts quality as of late. There was a time when moog was good stuff, unfortunately that time has passed. Plenty of info out there on ball joint brands and which are good/ which are bad now.

I wouldn’t just put in ball joints because someone whose whole livelihood revolves around me giving them money to fix stuff said to , especially without some sort of supporting evidence, because as you mentioned it’s not exactly an easy job.

Just one guys experience, so it may not be the norm, but my 2010 F250 still has the factory original ball joints in it at just over 200k miles, they’re fine. The truck was bought new by my sister and her husband, so I know the full history on it. Only front end steering / suspension parts that have been replaced are one bushing on the track bar (the axle end bushing ) and the steering stabilizer shock (it was leaking oil out making a mess, so it got replaced with a single fox unit). Truck drives and tows fine with no wobble issues, there’s probably more play in the steering wheel now than what was there 200k miles ago, but I still let my 17 year old son use the truck as his daily driver, so obviously I’m not to concerned about it or think it’s unsafe in any way.
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Old Aug 15, 2024 | 11:28 AM
  #26  
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Check the ball joints yourself. Jack up 1 wheel at the axle, just get the tire a couple of inches off of the ground. Get a piece of wood and a 3 ft or so prybar. Use the wood as a fulcrum and pry the tire upwards with the prybar while observing the ball joints. It will take 2 people and a light. Pretty obvious if the ball joints are worn as you will see the play in the joints.
 
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Old Aug 15, 2024 | 02:53 PM
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Same method as described above can be used to see if the unit bearings are going out as well (spinning noise is also an indication for the unit bearings too). While the tire is off the ground a little hand pressure on the tire at the 3 and 9 o'clock position will allow you to see if there is any play in the tie rod/ drag link ball joints too. If all those check good, put the truck back on the ground and try to push the truck side to side to see of the front track bar bushing are still good. Worn out track bar bushings can give a similar driver feedback as bad ball joints.
...
 
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Old Aug 24, 2024 | 09:42 PM
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this job is taking forever. parts that are promised in three days are taking ten. The ball joints were one such part and the track bar ball joint was the other. then I cut one of the lower ball joint grease cups and ordered a replacement online. It was due yesterday, then today. It did not show up and its coming usps so it will be monday at the earliest. When I click on track button it just tells me that it is processing thru a usps facility in a town that is about 45 miles from here. I don't know how long it is going to take them to "process" it. I have everything done that can be done until that one grease cup shows up and of course it is keeping me from installing the psgr side knuckle and axle. While underneath the truck I noticed that the bottom axle pivot bushing bolt is way off center of the bushing. Here we go again.
One thing that I have had to struggle with is that the OEM Tools ball joint press that I bought hasn't got the fittings that I need for the Ford. I have had to Macgyver it with other parts I had laying around including a 3" galv pipe cap, a piece of 1/2" plate and a bushing that just happened to be the right size. If I was going to do this job again I would search for the right pieces to use with my press.
 
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