Hello all,

Trying to understanding how to properly adjust valves on this motor.
ARP Studs, Harland Sharp rockers, Perma-lock nuts, isky Quiet Power lifters.

I don't know what my target is with hydraulic lifters. Do I want them at the top end of their self-adjustment? Middle? Bottom?
The stuff I have found online discusses tightening until you can't turn the pushrods by hand, but when I tighten until they don't turn, the lifter bleeds off over a couple seconds and then they will turn with light resistance.

I have tried the 3 methods below and am not confident in the results with any.
1) finger tighten all rocker nuts. Hand rotate engine 1/8th turn. Repeat until none can be finger tightened. Add 1/4 turn preload; Lock.
a) Seems like with this method results in rocker arms that are tightened further than other methods because the lifters bleed off as the engine is rotated. Makes me nervous they are down too far and not letting the valve close fully.
2) Similar but with tightening exhaust when intake is fully open and intake when exhaust is starts to open.
3) Running with the valve cover off, loosening nuts until they tap, tighten until no tap, add preload; lock.
a) Wouldn't this adjust to the end of the hydraulic lifter adjustment travel?

Any advice would be appreciated. Used to setting lash on solid lifters with shims and feeler gauge.

 

What engine series do you have and was the valve-train non-adjustable to begin with? If so, why the desire of variable adjustment?

This subject is as argumentative as engine oil selection and/or brake valving. And I have always wondered if one needs his finger tips calibrated as everyone is going to have different hand strength.

Waiting for incoming ...

 

Incoming

He has made changes to the valve train so the stock way of setting valve lash will not work.

He was on the right path on how to adjust the valves now.
I like to follow the firing order yet others like to turn the motor over and over a bunch to adjust all valve.
I would remove the spark plugs so you can turn the motor over easier.
I would also back off all the adjustments
Set #1 to TDC, both valves should be closed at this time.
Spin the push rod and tighten down the adjustment till it just stops spinning with your fingers.
Go 1/4 to 1/2 a turn more and lock down the adjustment.

Now move on to the next in the firing order and set it to TDC
Go thru spinning the push rod till it stops, then 1/4 to 1/2 a turn more and lock down the adjustment.
Only got 4 more to do.

If you find the valves making noise you can try adjusting them when the motor is running just makes a little mess with the oil spraying out.
Motor should be up to temp then have the motor idling as low as it will go and pull the valve cover.
It dose not matter where you start but I would start at 1 end and work to the other.
Loosen the adjustment till it just makes noise then tighten so it just stops making noise then go 1/4 to 1/2 a turn more and lock down the adjustment.
When done you should not have any more noise from the valves. If you do you will need to look over everything why it is.
Dave ----

 

BTW how did you adjust the valves before the piston went bad that I seen in your other post?

What did you have the base timing set to?
What was timing at 3000 RPM with out vacuum hooked up?
What was timing at 3000 RPM with vacuum hooked up?

I think I would set base to 12* BTDC and leave the vacuum off and plugged till you can map the mechanical advance.
Then do the same with vacuum.
I would not have more that say 32* total timing between the 3 of them so you may need to limit mechanical & vacuum.
Dave ----

 

I believe that prior to The Meltening I had adjusted them using method number 1, and my finger tight torque spec is pretty high.
Could be possible that the valves were not fully closing.

Here is the base & mechanical timing details I was using at that time as measured with a digital timing light.
Vac advance max is +9
Was targeting 36 as my max advance based on the snipped quote from @pmueller and the dyno test results from the PowerNation build.
May need to rethink this, and for break in on the new piston I have it set less aggressively.

I was going to do another thread about ignition timing but have not made it yet.
Seems like there is a lot of "good enough" engineering in these. Cyl #6 is 2 deg retarded vs Cyl #1. Can't compare the other cylinders because my light has 90* max digital advance. There is another 2 deg difference in using the passenger side timing marks vs the driver side timing marks.
Potential for at least 4 deg of delta based on how you measure seems a bit excessive.
Saw a picture of a turbo one on a Ford 300 Facebook group that had a mag pickup in place of the distributor and a coil on plug ignition system. Seems like the way to go, but bet it costs $$$ and I don't know how to do it.

 

OK, I'm cornfused ...

Is there an earlier thread describing the service repair and why he went to an adjustable valve-train?

Engine and model year?

 

I dont think so but that is a normal "up grade" to go with adjustable valve train and more so when you go with screw in studs as the press in studs can pull out over time with age and higher spring pressures.
I dot see the need to stay with the factory setup when rebuilding a head if you have the money and the need.

If you fear the press in studs pulling out you could have them "pinned" so they dont pull out but you would be better off going screw in at that point for the money in my book.

Because you dont TQ them down you have to do the push rod spin and go 1/4 to 1/2 turn more.
Dave ----

 

So all of this came about as the studs were starting to pull? They shouldn't pull if not using stronger valve springs or install of a hot cam.

Even if going to screw-in studs say while having the heads re-done gives no reason (to me) to justify the cost and trouble of the conversion. You would select a stud with positive stop to stay with the OEM valve-train. I could see it if a HP ENGINE but not daily driving ($$$).

Now he is worried about adjusting for plunder depth?

Is this a 300ci or eight?

 

Please describe THE MELTINING.

I a$$-u-me new lifters? Were they soaked in oil before assembly?

If the lifters are hard (previous soaking or running) they need to be collapsed(bled) prior to mechanical adjustment to ensure the plunger is moving freely to easily arrive at the correct plunger travel.

READ THIS TECH ARTICLE - https://www.enginebuildermag.com/201...ifter-preload/

On a hydraulic FORD engine, lifter pre-load (performed after an engine repair) is done by collapsing the lifter and measuring clearance (air-gap) between the rocker arm and push-rod.

CORRECTION - 24JUL2024 10:34 HRS

That should read while the lifter is collapsed the air gap should be measure between the rocker arm tip and valve stem.

POST CONTINUES -

Achieving that clearance (found in WSM) is set by varying length push-rods. The OEM CLEARANCE GAP is what you need to find to duplicate correct lifter adjustment. Instead of varying length push-rods, you adjust the adjustable rocker arm to arrive at that clearance.

Now that spec can be varied say if tuning for the track but this is a driver?

There is no SPINNING THE PUSH-ROD.

 

Did this help or further confuse?

 

Kultulz it sounds like you have not replaced a cam or rebuilt a motor?

The OP had a built up motor and it melted a piston in a vary short time so he came back to ask questions so it would not happen again as he would run out of money pretty fast LOL

He was thinking maybe the way the valve were adjusted could have been a cause.
I say no but a burnt valve maybe as the valve looses some heat to the head when the valve is closed and if head open just a little beside loosing compression / power it builds heat till it burns.

As for the valve train a cam with more lift will need valve train adjustments to work right.
You can not get this adjustment when the rockers are run down till they stop and you cant add adjustable rockers to the factory studs so they were machined for screw in studs.

BTW I have seen factory stock press in studs and warn out springs pull out studs on a 65 Chevy 230 six
With a lot of heat / cooling of the cast head the studs loosen up so you do not have to have high psi springs to have them pull out.

You also said "check air gap between push rod and rocker"?
Wrong! it is between rocker tip and valve stem tip and it is ONLY on a solid lifter cam not Hydraulic cam like the OP is running.
The only thing you have right is no spinning the push rod on a SOLID cam as you are checking the "air gap" with a feeler gauge.
They also have different gaps for EXH (larger) and intake (smaller) for the 2 of them.

So with Hydraulic cams you need to take up the free play before pre-loading the lifter.
So you spin the push rod till it just stops so you know the push rod has touched the lifter but not pre-loaded it yet.
Once the push rod touches you can then pre-load the lifter by going 1/4 to 1/2 turn more on the rocker nut and then lock it down.
If you can see the lifter, intake off on a v8 or the side cover off on a six you can see the plunger being pushed down on the pre-load and they all should be the same amount down.

That is just a quick run down of how it is done and what I have come across in my years working & owning cars & trucks.
Dave ----

 

My first FORD dealership job was in 1966, yours?

The piston burned more likely as a result of too tight assembly or a lean mixture. If the valve does not have enough seat time, the valve face/seat will most likely burn first.

Not necessarily. Depends on the cam events.

TRUE, but I asked if there was a previous thread describing the problem and you said no. Reading that thread would have given more information as to the possible cause.

NOT WRONG. Research the FORD OEM method of adjusting an adjustable hydraulic valve-train (FORD - not talking no GM as they are designed differently)

That is how you do it on a SBC, not a FORD. That is the way the GM hydraulic valve-train is designed. You have to deterime correct plunger travel.

You know Dave, your post is scary. It is individuals such as yourself that keeps repeating these OLD WIVES TALES.

How much repair shop/dealer time did you spend and what tech classes did you receive?

Are you the one that is filling this kid's head with 'twirling the push-rods' non-sense?

Now where did I put my wading boots as it is getting deep in here ...

 

... chirp ... chirp ... chirp ...
... sigh ...

You found me out. All of the engines I have done required me to job out cam installs ...

It seems I could never pass the CERTIFICATION FOR FINGER TWIRLING ...

I could just not ever get my fingers calibrated correctly ...

You now see before you a broken man .... still looking for his hip boots ...

 

Before high school built motors for racing go karts and set up suspension (tire psi) and gearing for the tracks we ran on.
State tech school for auto repair, 4 years as it was also high school.
Built a 1800 cc VW motor for a bug I used for school
4 years at a Dodge dealer ship then opened my own shop with my dad.

When I had my shop built a Datsun 510 ground up for road racing, yes rebuilt the 1600 OC motor with Datsun SSS kit.
Built a few Jeeps, Bronco and Toyots LC for racing off road, 10 trucks for 10 laps on a Moto-X track.
The Bronco I built a 302 with 351 heads that guys though was a chevy power it ran so good and took the class each time out.
Built ground up AMC Javelin for 1/4 mile drag tracing. Yes it was AMC 360 cid powered and also did good most of the time out.
Built a 400 Ford motor in a F250 4x4 pickup with a little more compression and cam for the street and pulling trailers. Pulled 2 car open deck and bed full of shop equipment with no issues.

As you can see I dont limit myself to just Ford's and only 1 of the 3 Jeep was chevy power, Buick v6 (odd fire) & 401 AMC power.

If all you worked on where Fords than that is all you know.
Do tell me how do you check the air gap between a push rod and the rocker as they are a cup & socket?
No feeler gauge that I know of will work?
Also if Ford you "just lock it down" then why the air gap?

On the OP his valve train is adjustable so the Ford way no longer applies and why you spin the push rod to take the play out then dial in the pre-load.
Yes it maybe like GM but it works how would you do it when you can't lock it down?

You install a higher lift cam how do you get the valve train back so the tip of the rocker (roller why stock if higher lift?) dose not go over the tip of the valve?
You can only get so close with longer push rods and dial in pre-load with adjustable rockers & studs. Keeping the roller tip in the center of thee valve tip.
Depending on cam lift the stock rocker may not move as far as needed and why roller rockers are needed.

Going with a larger cam on a Ford and need push rods and because of spring pressures need to go larger what do you do when the head has a slot for the factory push rod guild that the larger will not fit thru? You drill it out then what keep the push rod & rocker in line?
Got to run guide plates and what holds them in, screw in studs!
If you run larger valves, the tip may be to large to fit the rail rockers on some Fords so you go with screw in studs and guide plates.
Yep back to how do you adjust the valves as Ford's way will not work.
You keep doing what you do on the stock motors and I will keep doing what I do on everything else
Dave ----

 

Dave,

Even with all of your accomplishments, I do not desire to banter with you. There is no point.

It sounds to me that you have coached this kid into spending his money on an incorrect and unneeded valve-train modification(s) and now has his a$$ in the wind.

You want to keep repeating this crap and others want to believe you, so be it.

HOLD-ON!

I just went back and re-read your post and listed accomplishments and experienced a mild (very mild) orgasm.

Somebody, and I ain't mentioning names, needs a crash course on proper valve-train geometry and how to go about it properly.

BTW - What is the kid working on?