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I a$$-u-me new lifters? Were they soaked in oil before assembly?
If the lifters are hard (previous soaking or running) they need to be collapsed(bled) prior to mechanical adjustment to ensure the plunger is moving freely to easily arrive at the correct plunger travel.
On a hydraulic FORD engine, lifter pre-load (performed after an engine repair) is done by collapsing the lifter and measuring clearance (air-gap) between the rocker arm and push-rod. Achieving that clearance (found in WSM) is set by varying length push-rods. The OEM CLEARANCE GAP is what you need to find to duplicate correct lifter adjustment. Instead of varying length push-rods, you adjust the adjustable rocker arm to arrive at that clearance.
Now that spec can be varied say if tuning for the track but this is a driver?
There is no SPINNING THE PUSH-ROD.
You were the one that posted how to check the "air gap".
The OP already had the screw in studs and roller rockers, so I did not make him spend any money as he already spent it.
He asked how to adjust the valves and because it is NOT STOCK you cant lock it down.
It is how I have done all my race motors that run roller rockers, screw in studs / guide plates for adjusting pre-load on a hydraulc cam or set "air gap" clearance between rocker and valve tip on a solid lifter cam.
The AMC race motor was spinning 6K at the lights, ran out of cam for the rear 4.56 gear.
Ford motor was shifted at 7200 RPM as it ran 100 yd sand drags (low range), front tires just touching the ground.
Never lost any valve train parts on anything I worked on so I must of been doing something right.
Dave ----
Personally, I've never had any luck with the pushrod "twist". Some will continue to spin even when they're tight whereas others won't.
I've found it works much better to move them up and down, and feel the clack and slop between the lifter and the rocker arm. Tighten until there's no more up and down movement, and then set the preload.
However, this is the method I went with:
For the record, I went with screw in studs for increased durability as I was installing a high lift cam (0.504" of installed lift) and didn't want the press-in studs pulling out. Screw in studs are vastly superior in strength.
They just come at the cost of the machine work, and then manually having to adjust them.
I got another valve cover and used a cutting wheel and took the top off. The reason for this is that, technically, you can do this with no valve cover at all but it's going to make your engine bay a horrible oily mess. A second cover with the top removed allows you to adjust your rockers without oil going everywhere.
Loosen all of the rocker arms, and then tighten them all just until the pushrod touches the tops of the lifters. It's better to be too shallow than too deep. Too shallow will cause some clicking, too deep will cause bent pushrods or lobe damage.
Then, as the engine is running, start from the front and go to the back. Slowly loosen the rocker arm until it audibly starts to click and make noise. Then slowly tighten it until the sound quiets back down and goes away. Once it does, give it a quarter turn to set the preload.
Once you've done all your valves, start from the beginning and do it again. Lock them down and swap back to your full valve cover and you're done.
The reason for the second pass is that you may have had excessive valvetrain noise the first time that may have made it difficult to hear your adjustments properly.
This takes all the guesswork out of it, and you don't have to wonder if your lifters are fully pumped up, if you're on or off the lobe, etc. etc.
This is the best adjustment I ever got on my rockers and it's been awesome for the last 7 years / 30,000 miles. Many of them hard miles.
Trying to understanding how to properly adjust valves on this motor.
ARP Studs, Harland Sharp rockers, Perma-lock nuts, isky Quiet Power lifters.
I don't know what my target is with hydraulic lifters. Do I want them at the top end of their self-adjustment? Middle? Bottom?
The stuff I have found online discusses tightening until you can't turn the pushrods by hand, but when I tighten until they don't turn, the lifter bleeds off over a couple seconds and then they will turn with light resistance.
I have tried the 3 methods below and am not confident in the results with any.
1) finger tighten all rocker nuts. Hand rotate engine 1/8th turn. Repeat until none can be finger tightened. Add 1/4 turn preload; Lock.
a) Seems like with this method results in rocker arms that are tightened further than other methods because the lifters bleed off as the engine is rotated. Makes me nervous they are down too far and not letting the valve close fully.
2) Similar but with tightening exhaust when intake is fully open and intake when exhaust is starts to open.
3) Running with the valve cover off, loosening nuts until they tap, tighten until no tap, add preload; lock.
a) Wouldn't this adjust to the end of the hydraulic lifter adjustment travel?
Any advice would be appreciated. Used to setting lash on solid lifters with shims and feeler gauge.
The correct way to adjust the valve train without guessing is to remove both the valve cover and the side cover.
Bring #1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke. If the lifters are moving as the piston approached TDC then you are not at the compression stroke.
Tighten the rocker arm until the pushrod no longer can be clicked up and down and the lifter plunger is barely moved down from the retaining clip at the top of the lifter.
Then go another 1/2 turn. The lifter plunger should look to be about .050" to .075" down from the retaining clip.
Do this for both the intake and exhaust rocker arms.
Repeat with cylinder #2 and go right on down the line to cylinder #6.
Trying to understanding how to properly adjust valves on this motor.
ARP Studs, Harland Sharp rockers, Perma-lock nuts, isky Quiet Power lifters.
I don't know what my target is with hydraulic lifters. Do I want them at the top end of their self-adjustment? Middle? Bottom?
The stuff I have found online discusses tightening until you can't turn the pushrods by hand, but when I tighten until they don't turn, the lifter bleeds off over a couple seconds and then they will turn with light resistance.
I have tried the 3 methods below and am not confident in the results with any.
1) finger tighten all rocker nuts. Hand rotate engine 1/8th turn. Repeat until none can be finger tightened. Add 1/4 turn preload; Lock.
a) Seems like with this method results in rocker arms that are tightened further than other methods because the lifters bleed off as the engine is rotated. Makes me nervous they are down too far and not letting the valve close fully.
2) Similar but with tightening exhaust when intake is fully open and intake when exhaust is starts to open.
3) Running with the valve cover off, loosening nuts until they tap, tighten until no tap, add preload; lock.
a) Wouldn't this adjust to the end of the hydraulic lifter adjustment travel?
Any advice would be appreciated. Used to setting lash on solid lifters with shims and feeler gauge.
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
That is in your opinion, correct?
No it is fact!
How do YOU adjust a non - stock valve train where you cant TQ them down as per the FSM?
Again I did not tell him to go out and spend any money on the valve train as he already had the parts installed, motor running when it melted a piston and had to start all over again.
Dave ----
Let me ask you something. When you adjust a solid valve-train, you are looking for the correct air-gap, correct?
Think about it. The PROPER hydraulic lifter plunger depth setting is important for several reasons. You cannot arrive at the correct depth by 'SPINNING FOR DOLLARS'.
If you cannot grasp that, there is no use in further exchanges.
How do YOU adjust a non - stock valve train where you cant TQ them down as per the FSM?
It depends on whether the stud is POSITIVE STOP or you have an adjustable rocker arm.
A lot of things whizzing over your head. You need to sit up a little higher.
Now go back to your HARBOR FREIGHT tool box and pullout the BFH drawer and get back to work.
Personally, I've never had any luck with the pushrod "twist". Some will continue to spin even when they're tight whereas others won't.
I've found it works much better to move them up and down, and feel the clack and slop between the lifter and the rocker arm. Tighten until there's no more up and down movement, and then set the preload.
However, this is the method I went with:
For the record, I went with screw in studs for increased durability as I was installing a high lift cam (0.504" of installed lift) and didn't want the press-in studs pulling out. Screw in studs are vastly superior in strength.
They just come at the cost of the machine work, and then manually having to adjust them.
I got another valve cover and used a cutting wheel and took the top off. The reason for this is that, technically, you can do this with no valve cover at all but it's going to make your engine bay a horrible oily mess. A second cover with the top removed allows you to adjust your rockers without oil going everywhere.
Loosen all of the rocker arms, and then tighten them all just until the pushrod touches the tops of the lifters. It's better to be too shallow than too deep. Too shallow will cause some clicking, too deep will cause bent pushrods or lobe damage.
Then, as the engine is running, start from the front and go to the back. Slowly loosen the rocker arm until it audibly starts to click and make noise. Then slowly tighten it until the sound quiets back down and goes away. Once it does, give it a quarter turn to set the preload.
Once you've done all your valves, start from the beginning and do it again. Lock them down and swap back to your full valve cover and you're done.
The reason for the second pass is that you may have had excessive valvetrain noise the first time that may have made it difficult to hear your adjustments properly.
This takes all the guesswork out of it, and you don't have to wonder if your lifters are fully pumped up, if you're on or off the lobe, etc. etc.
This is the best adjustment I ever got on my rockers and it's been awesome for the last 7 years / 30,000 miles. Many of them hard miles.
Originally Posted by pmuller
The correct way to adjust the valve train without guessing is to remove both the valve cover and the side cover.
Bring #1 piston to TDC on the compression stroke. If the lifters are moving as the piston approached TDC then you are not at the compression stroke.
Tighten the rocker arm until the pushrod no longer can be clicked up and down and the lifter plunger is barely moved down from the retaining clip at the top of the lifter.
Then go another 1/2 turn. The lifter plunger should look to be about .050" to .075" down from the retaining clip.
Do this for both the intake and exhaust rocker arms.
Repeat with cylinder #2 and go right on down the line to cylinder #6.
Thank you guys
The spinning is only to take the big play out of the valve train, or as pmuller said to the point the cup in the lifter is ever so pushed down off the clip then do the 1/4 to 1/2 turn and lock down the adjuster. With the side cover off you can see when the cup is just starting to push down off the clip.
I also said in one of my post if the motor was running he could adjust them when running like AbandonedBronco posted.
I also like that you went back over a 2nd time just to make sure they were set right because of noise
But for a fresh build you need to get them set close to running for break in.
Originally Posted by KULTULZ
It is a fact only in your mind.
Let me ask you something. When you adjust a solid valve-train, you are looking for the correct air-gap, correct?
Think about it. The PROPER hydraulic lifter plunger depth setting is important for several reasons. You cannot arrive at the correct depth by 'SPINNING FOR DOLLARS'.
If you cannot grasp that, there is no use in further exchanges.
It depends on whether the stud is POSITIVE STOP or you have an adjustable rocker arm.
A lot of things whizzing over your head. You need to sit up a little higher.
Now go back to your HARBOR FREIGHT tool box and pullout the BFH drawer and get back to work.
No one on here said anything about a solid lifter cam did they?
That is the only cam you would set the air gap on is solid lifter and that is between the rocker and valve tip unlike you posted rocker and push rod
The spinning of the rod is to get the push rod to just touch the lifter cup not for adjusting pre-load
You now just got it the OP dose not have POSITIVE STOP rockers and you cant just TQ it down.
And no I did not tell him to go out and buy screw in studs and roller rockers, he had them from his first build.
So now that 3 of us are on the same page how to adjust adjustable rockers how dose it feel.
I will drop to your level just this time
Go back under the rock you came from and leave the real builders to do their thing
Dave ----
I mis-typed in the original post. I just corrected the text.
Contrary to popular belief, I am human and make mistakes, same as your opinion on valve adjustment.
So now that 3 of us are on the same page how to adjust adjustable rockers how dose it feel.
I will drop to your level just this time
Who is the third, you have a mouse in your pocket?
And while dropping to my level, what is the chance... as you are already down there ... ?
Never mind as I doubt if you could do that right either.
As for your being a so-called builder, the only thing you can build is a mountain out of a mole-hill and most likely that attempt leaves your hands smelling like squirrel droppings because you are just as nutty.
You (and others like you) are a wonderment, I will give you that.
Trying to understanding how to properly adjust valves on this motor.
I don't know what my target is with hydraulic lifters. Do I want them at the top end of their self-adjustment? Middle? Bottom?
3) Running with the valve cover off, loosening nuts until they tap, tighten until no tap, add preload; lock.
a) Wouldn't this adjust to the end of the hydraulic lifter adjustment travel?
Any advice would be appreciated. Used to setting lash on solid lifters with shims and feeler gauge.
You logic is sound and it is obvious you are well read on this issue.
To answer your question, you want the little piston inside the hydraulic lifter to be in the middle of it travel. This gives maximum wear adjustment in both directions, which will last the life of the engine. Which is why many, including myself, consider the valve train " non adjustable".
Once you apply engine oil pressure to a lifter, the little piston will move as far as it can. If the rocker arm nut is loosened while oil pressure is applied, it will stop at the retainer clip. See pmuller post 20 for more info.
Lifters don't want to bleed down. Just try this for yourself, leave maximum valve spring pressure on a lifter overnight. You might have to remove them to collapse them. I think this why most use a different method.
If all of your lifters are at max travel, up against the clip, you will only have valve train wear adjustment in one direction only.
The "preload tighten" might move the piston down a little, say 5%. And thus you will have 5% adjustment in one direction and 95% in the other direction.
While this does work for some, you will have to repeat the adjustment process when you use up the 5%.
Do your studs have a shoulder that you tighten the nut against? Meaning the part under the threads is a larger diameter. If so, the nut tightens on this shoulder. You would use different push rod lengths as a adjustment.
As mentioned in post 20, as long as you are down from the max travel point, you will be fine.
Good luck, Jim
The "preload tighten" might move the piston down a little, say 5%. And thus you will have 5% adjustment in one direction and 95% in the other direction. While this does work for some, you will have to repeat the adjustment process when you use up the 5%.
Do your studs have a shoulder that you tighten the nut against? Meaning the part under the threads is a larger diameter. If so, the nut tightens on this shoulder. You would use different push rod lengths as a adjustment.
As mentioned in post 20, as long as you are down from the max travel point, you will be fine.
FINE as defined by your guesstimate?
PARTIAL QUOTE FROM POST #20 -
Tighten the rocker arm until the push-rod no longer can be clicked up and down and the lifter plunger is barely moved down from the retaining clip at the top of the lifter.
This is also known as the FINGER TWIRL METHOD.
Then go another 1/2 turn. The lifter plunger should look to be about .050" to .075" down from the retaining clip.
Should be as defined as close?
The only thing close is horse-shoes, a hand grenade exchange and thermonuclear warfare.
What he has installed is an adjustable (rocker arms - not push-rod length) valve-train.
No one has even mentioned verifying proper valve-train geometry after this guess method is employed.
What he has installed is an adjustable (rocker arms - not push-rod length) valve-train.
I have never seen adjustable rocker arms on a Ford 300. Can you post a photo to help educate me. Ford has used these in the past, I found a photo of an older FE engine, shown below.
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