I think I'll bust out a seperate thread on a concept that really stikes to the core in terms of "NO KIDDING! On the ground fire fighting" - how can a "hardened" vehicle that can hunker down and provide shelter for trapped firemen be constructed...

Fuel isolation (from heat) would be a prime consideration there, air could be stored in pressure tanks for a long enough time for most expected fires to burn over, and it would need to be pretty tough since things could fall on it.

It might need to be capable of busting through a fire to get at a group trapped in a pocket - so it would need to be somewhat fireproof when running, and have an oxy-supply to run engines that was self contained and seperate from operator/survivor air.

- Call it a Mass Conflag Rescue Vehicle, I suppose...

It's completely reasonable to concieve of a concrete and steel tracked machine with a self contained atmosphere.

What I don't know is how fast it could be. The M1 Abrams can theoretically do 70 miles an hour, but parts of it's treads are rubber.

Ideas people?

 

Technologically, keeping the fuel cool this is the easy part. Heck, you could easily build an insulated, even "refrigerated", fuel tank.

Simply build a tank within a tank and circulate "coolant" in the void between the two.

Carrying the same theory to a larger scale, the crew compartment could be cooled/insulated.

What problems does that leave us with . . ?

A) Ventilation (including air to run the engine)
B) "Fire proofing" the *outside* of the vehicle
3) (giggle) Navigation inside the conflagration.

This is seeming WAY too easy!! What the heck am I missing !?!?!?!

 

A budget to explore new concept technology, perhaps?

That's the only thing that seems to be holding it back. That and the design-to-employment lag that tends to accompany anything funded by the government...

(Typically twenty years for aircraft other than USAF)

A private venture could be online much sooner though, if a major vehicle designer were interested.

Caterpillar, possibly.

 

The easiest way of achieving a shelter vehicle is to take something already in production, and adapt it. The adaptation required would be some sort of very hard insulation, covering the body, probably a concrete material, and the body be made of plate steel. Give it two engines, engine air storage, and a pressurized cabin, able to hold 8 comfortably, and 12 at a squeeze. Have five times the crew air you think you need, and make sure there is drinking water on board, and you have your vehicle.

Start with a battle tank design, but longer, and no turret, cover it with a semi flexible concrete insulation, similar to the stuff they line furnaces with, ensure that the tracks can operate without lubrication, so it will work after it is flame licked, and keep the whole design low and wide, to help with traversing angles.

Build it with the same controls a tank uses, and put a big blade on the front, like a dozer. When you have got all that, call me, and I will come test drive it for you.

Theo

 

- Suprised you don't already own one...

Well - I suppose M1's will be available through DRMO one day...

 

I am going to think about this particular concept for a while. I can get hold of a base vehicle reasonably easily, and working out the shotcrete insulation is not too hard. Attaching it to the vehicle doesn't pose too many problems either, so it is a completely logical problem. Funding would be a bit harder, but a prototype need not cost much at all. I would imagine a cost of about 100k would develop a machine into testing, and let somebody else take over production. I have not got the backing to start to produce such a thing, more is the pity, being a millionaire would be a nice change.

Theo

 

who would produce it, when they know it's a limited market? most fire departments cannot afford the proper equipment for structural firefighting, to meet nfpa standards, let alone, buying something of this nature....

to be pratical, i would have to be something that can be done to a "normal" fire apratus. every department buys thier equipment to suit different needs, and purchasing something just as a personel vechial, for woodland firefighting, would not be high on the list...

back to the idea at hand though, you wouldn't want it very low, because it would have troubles traversing rought terain.

 

I would look toward some of the technology used by NASA on the space shuttle. Breathing air, engine air, heat protection, navigation, are all used in the space shuttle program. I would think that might be a starting point if you can find the info you need. As for the tires/tracks being protected from the heat, could use a hydraulic setup as used in these lowriders running around. Lower the chassis to the ground, and maybe a heat retardant material that could slide into position to protect the wheel/track opening.

Bluehawk

 

I got some ideas. The vechicle would only have to consist of a normal alumniumn body. Incorperated in between the alumniumn body could be a material that reflects heat like a fire shelter would. This material is extremly light weight and carried on all wildland firefighters all ready. The problem with the shelters we already carry is that they are hard to deploy in the windy conditons of a wildland fire.They look like a pup tent that you throw out and crawl under. The other problem is that if you dont hold them down properly, the fire can burn under them. You are actually suppose to clear an area to bare dirt to lay down in, hopefully you have enough time to.These shelters resist up to 99% of heat. What they dont resist is the smoke that comes in under them, and the lack of oxygen when the fire passes. I have heard that if you deploy thm, you better hope your will is filled out and signed.They have saved countless firefighters, yet -it seems as though the firefighter inside alawys get burnt or injured somehow.As far as who would probably, purchase the units, without a doubt, it would be the departement of forestry, since that is who everyone calls in a wild fire. It is a HUGE organization- and safety is alawys a main concern. The fuel tank idea with a refregerated unit is a great one,but here are some problems i can for see. We would need a diseal engine. If you refregerated the fuel too much, diseal would not burn..There is no way to use gas in a safety vehicle designed for shelter, it is just too flammable.One other consideration is the air intake systems. They inhale sparks, and this is a big problem. There would need to be an spark arrestor in the air intake.We have lost an Engine due to this. There could be a way to make a big air bottle attached to the vehicle, that would supply fresh air to the people inside the cab and the engine at the same time, say an isolated intake. Build a switch to change over to the supplied air- so that it is not consatantly used up. The bottle would have to be big enough to lase about 20 minutes, enough time for the fire to pass. This bottle could be filled of air compressors the fire departement already have......any other ideas????l

 

Just one.

Don't pass refrigerant around the fuel tank. Use something like water or anti-freeze - the idea being to isolate the tank from heat.

The concept could be applied to the passenger compartment as well.

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