Need help understanding camber/caster sleeves
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,182
Likes: 176
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 790
Likes: 232
2019 F250 XLT 4x4 6.2L 128K. So for about 3 months, I have had a slight pull to the left. Truck drives amazing otherwise. Decided to take it to Ford for an alignment. They said $130, then they called me out to the shop once the truck was on the lift to show me a bad passenger ujoint (thats another thread I will be starting). They said I would need "bushings" to get my truck into spec. The $130 price went to $502 and I told them to take my truck off the lift and I would go home and research what I need to do, that their price was insane.
So I'm learning and it seems like the SPC 2.3° and 2.6° is what I am going to purchase and install myself. Since they call these camber/caster bushings, do they adjust camber at the same time as well? I see so many posts of people saying that they don't even get an alignment after installing these. Is toe really the only thing an alignment tech can actually adjust? These camber/caster bushings "set a certain degree" and is not adjustable? Truck just slightly pulls left and installing these shims would give me .3° more on the right side, seemingly curing my issue. I will get an alignment after installing if it doesn't fix it.
I will say, my last alignment was right after I installed a new trac bar, drag link and end. The alignment specs at that time showed caster at 2.8 on both sides and the driver side had 0.0 camber and the passenger side -0.2 camber. From my research the above mentioned SPC sleeves should possibly fix the pull to the left. I did request a caster of 4 degrees or more and thats when the tech said I needed the new bushings. I have a full selection of tools and replacing them seems like a breeze, but any comments clarifying how these bushings actually work and if they are "adjustable" or "set them and that is" are welcome.
So I'm learning and it seems like the SPC 2.3° and 2.6° is what I am going to purchase and install myself. Since they call these camber/caster bushings, do they adjust camber at the same time as well? I see so many posts of people saying that they don't even get an alignment after installing these. Is toe really the only thing an alignment tech can actually adjust? These camber/caster bushings "set a certain degree" and is not adjustable? Truck just slightly pulls left and installing these shims would give me .3° more on the right side, seemingly curing my issue. I will get an alignment after installing if it doesn't fix it.
I will say, my last alignment was right after I installed a new trac bar, drag link and end. The alignment specs at that time showed caster at 2.8 on both sides and the driver side had 0.0 camber and the passenger side -0.2 camber. From my research the above mentioned SPC sleeves should possibly fix the pull to the left. I did request a caster of 4 degrees or more and thats when the tech said I needed the new bushings. I have a full selection of tools and replacing them seems like a breeze, but any comments clarifying how these bushings actually work and if they are "adjustable" or "set them and that is" are welcome.
Those shims "angle" the upper ballpoint, which changes the angle through both ball joints. When you put them in as a pure caster adjustment, it is only
changing the angle of ball joint, either front or back.
Now camber is this
And could also be adjusted by the ball joint shims. Typically, you would angle ball joint left or right to adjust camber.
Now if you take one of those ball joint shims, and set it somewhere between the full caster adjustment (angled ball joint front to back)
and the full camber adjustment (angled ball joint right to left), yes it will adjust both camber and caster.
As you rotate it from say pointing backwards to sideways, it will lessen caster, and increase camber. You cannot get both max camber and caster
at the same time. But you can get some amount of caster and camber adjustment, and it will vary as you turn the shim.
Once you start using those shims to adjust both, you really need an alignment rack and know how to do the math up front.
The reason some get away with not aligning, is their cross caster (difference in caster, side to side) was most likely fine to start.
Then they add the exact same amount of ONLY caster with the shims on each side. So does not change camber or even toe (at least not much),
and they are good to roll.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 8,639
Likes: 2,433
The 23268 and 23269 are intended to be installed one way, and when installed in that one orientation they provide the stated + caster AND + camber change. Frome SPE, "These sleeves have a fixed positive camber and caster change and are designed specifically to align trucks that have been lifted or to provide more caster change than our standard 23220 Series sleeves. For maximum drivability and to compensate for road crown, use a 23268 on the driver's side and a 23269 on the passenger's side"
There are other caster bushings that are designed to be orientated in multiple positions (octagon shaped), allowing for varying amounts of +/- caster and camber correction, not independent of one another though. And then there are bushings that do have the ability to adjust caster and camber independent of one another.
There are other caster bushings that are designed to be orientated in multiple positions (octagon shaped), allowing for varying amounts of +/- caster and camber correction, not independent of one another though. And then there are bushings that do have the ability to adjust caster and camber independent of one another.
Thread Starter
|
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 742
Likes: 332
Looks like the SPC kit will throw my driver side out of spec, it's +.7 now, the kit would make it +1.2 and spec is -.6 to +.9. The passenger side would go to -.6 since it adjusts +.3 and its -.9 now or right on the edge of being in spec if I am doing my math correctly. Seems I would actually benefit running them on opposing sides of their instructions, then both caster numbers would be the same at 5.2. But not sure if these sleeves adjust "from the current numbers" or from zero??
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 8,639
Likes: 2,433
Looks like the SPC kit will throw my driver side out of spec, it's +.7 now, the kit would make it +1.2 and spec is -.6 to +.9. The passenger side would go to -.6 since it adjusts +.3 and its -.9 now or right on the edge of being in spec if I am doing my math correctly. Seems I would actually benefit running them on opposing sides of their instructions, then both caster numbers would be the same at 5.2. But not sure if these sleeves adjust "from the current numbers" or from zero??
Thread Starter
|
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 742
Likes: 332
The SPC 24220 can adjust both camber and caster from -2.50 to +2.50, that will help the alignment tech get it really dialed in.
https://www.spcalignment.com/compone...AFrom&to=USATo
https://www.spcalignment.com/compone...AFrom&to=USATo
Thread Starter
|
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 742
Likes: 332
The SPC 24220? I suppose I could go with those and set the camber to be +.3 (that's the dead center of being in spec) and then the caster on the driver side to +4.6 and the passenger side to +4.9 and then go have my toe adjusted.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Ford Trucks Ever Sold on Bring a Trailer
Joe Kucinski
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
Thread Starter
|
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 742
Likes: 332
I was going off the current numbers, but now I realize you have to install a 0° sleeve, check your numbers, then set the new adjustable sleeves to the numbers in the chart for desired final setting. That's pretty labor intensive. I am going to an independent shop Monday and they are giving me a free alignment check and said they either have, or will order the correct sleeves and do the alignment and it won't be over $250, whereas Ford wanted $508...... I didn't even ask the independent shop a price, except for base alignment, which is $110, Ford is $130.
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 8,639
Likes: 2,433
I was going off the current numbers, but now I realize you have to install a 0° sleeve, check your numbers, then set the new adjustable sleeves to the numbers in the chart for desired final setting. That's pretty labor intensive. I am going to an independent shop Monday and they are giving me a free alignment check and said they either have, or will order the correct sleeves and do the alignment and it won't be over $250, whereas Ford wanted $508...... I didn't even ask the independent shop a price, except for base alignment, which is $110, Ford is $130.
Thread Starter
|
More Turbo
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 742
Likes: 332
Lead Driver
Joined: Dec 2020
Posts: 8,639
Likes: 2,433
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 790
Likes: 232
Another option if you can't get the exact caster adjustment you want, without affecting a camber change you did not want.
Do part or most of the caster increase with this kit (it only changes caster both sides equally)
https://nwdiesel.com/products/cam-ca...-4wd-2011-2022
Might give you options with ball joint shims less than a degree, and I suspect you would only need one side corrected at that point.
Will change front pinion angle slightly, will let others with specific experience with those kits chime in on if a 2 degree change in
pinion angle, matters at all on an otherwise stock truck. .
.
Do part or most of the caster increase with this kit (it only changes caster both sides equally)
https://nwdiesel.com/products/cam-ca...-4wd-2011-2022
Might give you options with ball joint shims less than a degree, and I suspect you would only need one side corrected at that point.
Will change front pinion angle slightly, will let others with specific experience with those kits chime in on if a 2 degree change in
pinion angle, matters at all on an otherwise stock truck. .
.
