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My 2007 F250 extended cab 4x4 with 6.0 diesel started running a little rough for a day or two, then the check engine light came on. It sounded like maybe it was missing on at least one cylinder.
I hooked up my OBDII code reader, and got one code: P0283. My Chilton manual says that means Cylinder 8 Injector Circuit High Voltage.
I have been having various vehicle misadventures lately, as chronicled in a previous post https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...woes-help.html . Dead battery, security alarm, broken starter. Broken radius arm. One of the experienced FTE guys told me the dead battery might have fried my FICM (fuel injection control module), which I figured could be related to this check engine code.
I decided the learning curve for working on control modules or injectors is more than I want to tackle right now, so I took the truck to a local shop that works on diesels. He hooked it up to their computer, and told me the injector for cylinder 8 is shot and needs replacing. I asked if it was the injector or the FICM, and he said the injector.
Then he said, "On a truck with this kind of mileage [about 165k], if one injector is bad, it means the others will go soon. If I am gonna replace one injector, I'm gonna replace 'em all. I refuse to do just one. I've been down that road too many times, fix one and two weeks later they come back complaining with the same symptoms."
That was yesterday. He said he would get back to me with an estimate, but I haven't heard yet.
When I type my make, year, model, engine, and location into the above website, it gives me a ballpark range of $2590 to $2769 for parts and labor to replace all 8 injectors. Ouch. Obviously, not what I was hoping to hear.
So, any of you guys have any wisdom to offer me? Is there any chance that the problem is actually in the FICM, and replacing that for a few hundred would take care of it without doing the injectors? If injector #8 is bad, is this guy right that it's foolish to only replace that one? Should I just bite the bullet and pony up for 8 new injectors?
All I can say is that I am still on the original injectors at 243k miles. I do make sure that fuel pressure is always good and that filters are always changed, and that the oil condition is maintained! 165k miles isn't all that much.
All I can say is that I am still on the original injectors at 243k miles. I do make sure that fuel pressure is always good and that filters are always changed, and that the oil condition is maintained!
What do you recommend doing to make sure fuel pressure is always good?
Mark will hopefully give you more detail on which injectors you should have put in - we seem to be hearing about a lot of bad injectors right out of the box lately...
To answer your fuel pressure Q, most of us have installed Ford's upgrade Fuel Pressure spring in the fuel pressure regulator - it's called "the bluespring" and a seperate gauge to monitor the pressure itself. The fuel pressure regulator has a test port you need an adapter for and then you can put your transducer there or remote mount it and run your gauge inside, here's a picture of mine with a single gauge pillar mount (so I could keep the grab handle):
If it was a contribution error Then I could see where others may not be far behind. I wouldn't think a bad coil means the rest will quickly follow.
There was a recent thread where FICM caused this code
Hopefully mechanic was able to pinpoint the problem and not just doing the likely fix. If trusting him to do the work should probably go with his recommendation.
I'm cheap, would do my own work. Don't put in a lot of miles. So I might lean towards just the one
Get ForScan and an OBBDII adapter and conduct the buzz test.
Then tell us what oil you use and how often you change it. It would even help for us to see a picture of the top of your engine.
Then, you should install a fuel pressure sensor.
The tell us the FCM MPower and LPower voltages, KOEO, and cranking.
It may be worth doing some harness continuity checks, and/or solenoid resistance checks. I'll post some acceptable numbers for those tests in a minute.
With all that done and results communicated, we could better suggest 1 or all injectors.
EDIT:
Disconnect the #8 injector connector and test the injector pins for resistance. Measure the resistance between the suspected fuel injector pins,component side. Be advised these pins are small and hard to get on cleanly without touching the probes on the other pins. Look into the injector connector, the pin numbers are labeled, but the numbers ARE very tiny.
pins 1 (red wire) and 2 (blue wire) = 0.2 to 3.0 ohms.....but typically between .8 and 2.0 ohms
pins 3 (white wire) and 4 (black wire) = 0.2 to 3.0 ohms.....but typically between .8 and 2.0 ohms
pins 1 and 3 = greater than 10,000 ohms
pins 1 and 4 = greater than 10,000 ohms
pins 2 and 3 = greater than 10,000 ohms
pins 2 and 4 = greater than 10,000 ohms
If the resistances are not within specs the fuel injector solenoid is bad and the injector should probably be replaced. A typical reading is about 0.8 to 2.0 ohms which is in the middle of the specs.
If the resistances are good you need to check the harness, and then the FICM.
C1388a (end plug nearest firewall): 1, 4, 6, 7 #1 injector
Pin #2 (ground) to pin #19 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil NOTE: Up to 3.0 ohms is considered in-spec
Pin #5 (ground) to pin #20 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil #4 injector
Pin #1 (ground) to pin #23 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil
Pin #6 (ground) to pin #24 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil #6 injector #6 injector
Pin #4 (ground) to pin #21 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil
Pin #7 (ground) to pin #22 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil #7 injector #7 injector
Pin #3 (ground) to pin #17 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil
Pin #8 (ground) to pin #18 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil
C1388b (middle plug): 2, 3, 5, 8
#2 injector
Pin #2 (ground) to pin #17 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil
Pin #6 (ground) to pin #18 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil #3 injector Pin #4 (ground) to pin #19 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil
Pin #8 (ground) to pin #20 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil #5 injector
Pin #1 (ground) to pin #21 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil
Pin #5 (ground) to pin #22 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil #8 injector
Pin #3 (ground) to pin #23 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Open coil
Pin #7 (ground) to pin #24 (power) should have 0.8-1 ohms: Close coil
I am by no means an expert here, but cylinder codes can be thrown for weird/silly things you wouldn't even think of so check EVERYTHING first before tearing into your engine and replacing injectors that could very well have years of life left in them.
A few months back I took the box off my AFE aftermarket air intake so it was just the pipe and filter sitting there and to my surprise even with the MAF/Filter minder hooked up I was getting a cylinder 8 contribution code and a bit of rough running and when I put the box back on over the filter the code went away and truck back to normal lol.
If I were you I'd run a double dose of Archoil fuel system cleaner and the Archoil friction modifier and see if that gets rid of your rough running.
Also when's the last time you changed your fuel filters/checked for water in fuel and what's your FICM volts at?
If you've been running with very low fuel pressure the injectors could be toast, but could just be dirty/sticking so I'd get idle fuel pressure up to 60-65psi, check fuel filters, check FICM volts and add the Archoil to fuel and oil and do a hundred or so miles and see if your rough idle/running improves.
There's a LOT of garbage injectors being sold by the high end brands for whatever reason so I'd rule everything out before swapping injectors that may or may not end up being problematic.
As far as sources for buying a new injector - that depends a bit on whether your injectors have been modified or not.
I am probably going to go with new (not remanufactured) Pure Power / Alliant injectors (Alliant is now the official company marketing the new Pure Power injectors) when the time comes for me personally. Injectors Direct have them for a good price. So does Full Force Diesel (an EXCELLENT company and VERY GOOD prices), and Bitterroot also sells them I believe, but $320 is pretty high!!
I used to like Holders Diesel Performance, but a few forum members have now had some problems with their injectors. I have to say that NO COMPANY will have a perfect record, but they didn't do so well on the warranty coverage. Also, they failed to respond to some emails and attempts to get them to comment by email OR on the forum. They may generally have a good product, but when spending big money, we need to choose companies that offer BOTH good products AND good service. They ARE out there (for now anyway).
Sooooo ............. back to Full Force Diesel as the only company to go to for modified injectors - for me anyway.
I am still not opposed to a stock remanufactured injector from a reputable on-line dealership (for lowest price), but the evidence is stacking up that reflects some unhealthy changes in the Ford Parts supply chain for 6.0L parts.
My go-to on-line dealership is typically AutoNation White Bear Lake Parts:
I talked again today with the guy at the shop who looked at my truck Friday. He says #8 cylinder injector is bad and needs to be replaced. He also says that he refuses to replace just one injector and if he's gonna do it he will replace them all... for $4400. For 8 stock OEM Ford injectors, plus labor and other miscellaneous parts.
I'm a bit woozy with sticker shock here.
I asked him what he did to test the injector and he said a leak down test, which I knew nothing about, so I've been reading up. Most of the references I've seen say something like, force air into the cylinder. and wherever the air comes out determines where you are losing cylinder pressure. if it comes out of the intake its a messed up intake valve, if it comes out of the exhaust its a bad exhaust valve, out the coolant cap its a head gasket, out of the oil dipstick its a bad cylinder wall or bad rings. I suppose if the injector is bad you'd hear air coming out there?
Have you used forscan to verify codes? If the original code is all there is then problem should be electrical. Not sure how a leak down test would help other than maybe find other problems. If he guarantees his work and troubleshooting then pay the man... Or Take Bismics troubleshooting advice above and start digging in. You'll likely save some money.
If it is in fact the injector, I would replace all 8.
A slightly different situation... In my Kenworth I had an injector fail. I found a shop to replace it. I couldn't afford to do all 6 as it was $1000 per injector plus labor. I can't recall it was a couple weeks later, no more than a month. I had another injector fail. I took it back to the shop and actually the new injector failed as well as another. The new one got replaced under warranty and I just ended up having them replace all of them. On a cummins it's relatively easy to replace the injectors.
On a 6.0 it's a lot more involved and you don't want to have to pay labor every time one fails; especially with todays labor rates.
for what it's worth, Riffraff has oem injectors for $215ea. It's possible you can find them slightly cheaper elsewhere. Although, some shops won't do the job if you supply the parts. However if you are mechanically inclined, you could easily do it yourself and save a bunch of money
Circuit code = the problem is electrical (injector coil, injector or harness connectors, wiring, or FICM).
Testing does not require much "disassembly".
Leak down test for an injector circuit code - hmmmmmm
Since when do all injectors need to be replaced when one goes bad and ALSO any mechanic who tried to dictate terms to me would get laughed at and walked out on!
Have you checked your FICM volts at idle?
Battery voltage at idle?
Have you tried the 2 Archoil products yet?
A bad alternator can cause a slew of issues and cylinder codes so worth checking and if that injector IS bad then I'd just replace it and hope it's not a dud! You could very easily replace all 8 and end up having 2,3,4 being duds and the other 7 in there now could very well last another 100,000+ miles with proper OCI's/care.
Lets rule out stiction first.
I say change oil to 0w40 Rotella T6 and change filter also, add 600mls Archoil friction modifier to 13.5 litres of oil and add a double dose of the Archoil fuel system cleaner and let sit an hour then start engine and get up to temp then go for a 30-60 minute drive and see if your rough idle improves or goes away. If not it's time for a new injector.
