Yes I measured from both terminals and the cables and the only drop was post solenoid, it could be that the holes for the solenoid studs are just too big as they have a large inner diameter, I couldnt find anything metal to fill the voids with, but the build in nut to the solenoid as well as the stud and the wires seem to read 11v idle and 10v cranking on the battery side so I could have just mistaken that as its connecting fine when it really isnt. I will have to find some wire or something to try and get it to connect better later. I dont have the tools nor the parts to install a smaller diameter ring.

 

If it truely is the solenoid, and the solenoid is clicking, you should be able to take a large jumper cable and jump across the two large terminals and it will crank over. MAKE SURE IT'S OUT OF GEAR when doing this.

 

I did have the solenoid (came on truck) on my truck when I got it back on the road after a 4 year rebuild sometimes would click just once and nothing else.
All cables were new as was the battery. Being it was about a year since I got it on the road I remove the battery cables to clean the connections.
I also made sure the solenoid had a good ground to the body and yes I have a ground wire to the body also.

When done it was worst than when I started so I replaced it with top of the line NAPA one and no issues since and it has been years now.
Dave ----

 

Jumped the solenoid both from the solenoid and from battery to starter side, didnt even try to crank, threw a tiny bit of sparks, but not as much as when you jump the solenoid normally, less than a made-in-china sparkler. Voltage is still sitting around 10-11v on the batteries terminals so pretty sure when the battery dropped to 0v on the shorted solenoid, it nuked it. Going to try and take it to get tested if I can borrow a vehicle, as well as set it on the trickle just in case.

 

If the battery is less then 12 volts (12.6 really) then there is no need to do any testing of the system as it will not get the right readings.
Charge that battery! (did I do good Karl?)
Dave ----

 

Where's my 11 foot pole? Lots going on here.

Did you ever run the voltage drop test as linked in post #9 above? I'm seeing bits and pieces of voltage readings here or there, but it's all very confusing. Here's the link again to troubleshooting guide. It was written exactly for your present situation:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...w-starter.html

Follow the guide and it will pinpoint the exact location of the fault(s).

You mentioned a trickle charger. Put that thing away. Better yet, did a deep hole, drop it in there, and backfill with rocks and concrete. A trickle charger is a crime against electricity, in my over-inflated opinion. It's only "good" for maintaining a fully-charged battery. A trickle charger typically won't bring a discharged battery back up to a full charge. It's a waste of time for that application. And as far as maintaining a fully-charged battery, it has the strong possibility of eventually overcharging and cooking the poor battery. For maintaining a battery, you want something designed as a battery maintainer, which can cycle on and off as needed. For recharging a discharged battery, you want a proper charger, preferably automatic, with an output around 10 amps. A trickle charger can do neither job well. Think of it like a spork, which is a lousy spoon and a lousy fork, all in one.

Once you have a healthy battery with a full charge in place, run the test linked above. If unsure about the battery's overall condition (not just state of charge), take it to any place that sells batteries. They can test it free of charge.

 

Sorry, I call it a trickle charger, yes this is designed to charge a battery from dead and has both a 10a and 2a mode on it, and I have used it to power vehicles without batteries so I dont underestimate its power, and it is one that can variable switch on and off and it can adjust the amp rate depending on what is required to charge it. its from the 70s after all so its pretty beefy. It has been verified fully charged with no change, so I need to find someone to give me a ride to autozone. as I said earlier, the old solenoid stuck and immediately took the battery to 0v within seconds, so I am pretty sure its unable to put any power to the starter, especially since its high 30s low 40s temperature wise outside. Hell, it snowed a tiny bit this weekend. barely was able to crank after the solenoid short when it was 80 outside last week too, now it outright wont.

 

Had it charging a couple hours and tested again, next step is find a ride to autozone.

 

Went through the test, only drop being after the solenoid being that it is only clicking and fluttering and acting like a dead battery. All connections are fine, the only other test out of that I need to do is timing, since adding any fuel while cranking is causing slow crank, even one pump is enough on a dry cylinder. Also need to check carb tuning as it is a brand new carb. The other thing is one of the cylinders, first on passenger side bank towards front had a missing insulator, and there is spark knock on heavy acceleration from idle for a brief second. I am also addressing a few missing vac lines and removing the intake vac line as the intake is a massive leak with the rust holes in it. Spark plugs are showing signs of being in the slightly richer zone, but within a safe margin, but I have had to leave it in high idle or the vehicle stalls out. I do not have a timing light, and I was waiting for tuning until I figured out the misfire issue, which I have found multiple failed wires and spark plugs. The driver side bank, 4th plug back also was significantly lean compared to the other banks, not sure why. But timing is in order as well as a carb tuning. Acceleration lags behind input as well. I was also wondering if anyone had any tips to fill the bowl without making a mess, had significant amounts of water in the fuel and had to drain and purge the entire system, and the bowl is empty now.

 

Not sure what you're reporting here. Feels like I'm banging my head against a wall. Please run through the following three simple tests and report back with the voltage displayed on your meter. This is a copy/paste from the troubleshooting guide. I've added bold red text showing where to fill in the blanks:

1) Disable the ignition. (Disconnect and ground the center lead at the distributor, for example.)

2) Drive a small sheet metal screw into each battery post, as a place to connect your voltmeter test leads.

3) Connect your voltmeter (+) lead to the battery (+) post. Connect the (-) lead to the (-) post.

4) Engage the starter for 15 seconds. Make sure the battery voltage does not drop below 10.0 volts under load (while cranking). This portion of the test is checking the condition of the battery. A low reading here indicates a weak charge or battery on its last legs. Recharge or replace the battery and run this step again. (Record and post this value. Call it battery voltage under load.)

5) Keep the ignition disabled. Keep the voltmeter (+) lead on the battery (+) post. Move the (-) lead to the big electrical stud on the starter. Don't connect to the cable end, but right on the stud if at all possible. This set-up will test the entire positive side of the starter circuit, including the big contacts of the starter relay, making sure current from the battery will be delivered without undue restriction. Engage the starter again. 5 seconds is adequate here. If the voltage reading is less than 0.500, the entire positive side of the starter circuit is good. Remember, the closer to 0.000 the better. (Record and post this value. Call it positive side voltage drop.)

6) Keep the ignition disabled. Move the voltmeter (+) lead to the starter case. (That is not a typo, put the meter's positive lead on the starter housing.) Move the voltmeter's (-) lead to the battery (-) post. This set-up will test the entire negative side of the starter circuit, making sure the return portion of the electrical circuit is being completed without undue restriction. Engage the starter again for 5 seconds. If the voltage reading is less than 0.500, the entire negative side of the starter circuit is good. (Record and post this value. Call it negative side voltage drop.)


Please note in the above steps, the ignition is disabled. The engine obviously isn't going to start, nor do we want it to do so just yet. We are merely testing the ability of the battery to maintain adequate voltage under the load, and the ability of the cables (including the starter relay) to handle the massive flow of electrons demanded by the starter. Once we know the starter system can get the crankshaft reliably spinning at a good clip, we can worry about fuel and ignition. But until then, there's no point fiddling with the carb, for example, if the starter system isn't up to snuff.

So please post the three numbers. Remember, they are all recorded under load. Ignore any values displayed with the system not under load.

 

No, its just the battery. After charging up it cranked fine for 5 seconds and immediately began to slow as the voltage went down which then it just clattered the solenoid. Sounded better than before at least with the new cables for those 5 seconds

 

Ok, nevermind, it only starts with the multimeter on the positive terminal and the negative on the starters connection point.

 

Added a temporary chassis ground since the way the dual batteries was set up on this was one battery was an engine grounded battery and the other was chassis and engine grounded and they both had positive terminals that joined on the solenoid, chassis ground is 12v now with a .2 drop, did the test again on the starter housing and it is still reading 1-2v like yesterday but itll run with the positive on the positive terminal and the negative on the starters connection terminal and it had 12.0-12.2v during.

 

Seems like my best bet for the time being is see if the new negative cable is long enough to reach the starter, and try to attach it behind the bolt on the outside of the starter housing to not mess up alignment since the cable ive been using is engine grounded on the front on some bracket under the alternator, and try to make an engine to chassis ground if there isnt one. The truck worked perfectly fine till the tire blew, then all these starting problems emerged so something somewhere has to have let go. Does anyone know where the stock engine to chassis ground is or is supposed to be located? Also whats a cheap dirty way to make one if it is missing or broken with things that can be found in an ordinary household? Ive only got $2 to my name till i get my first paycheck. Unless anyone has any better ideas or solutions and better ways to route this more reliably, this might be the best bet. I dont know if any of this setup is original or not, or something shasta did or a previous owner during a motor swap, but I got till monday to get it running and tested to ensure itll survive an hour drive twice daily at minimum.

 

The original spot for the large ground cable on a v8 is a bolt hole on the very front corner of the block on the pass side. It's going to be hidden underneath the alternator or something like that on a v8. On the 300 six, I believe they did go directly to the starter housing. Either one will work, since the starter is bolted to the engine block. The frame is not as important, a smaller wire to the frame will suffice in case you have anything tied to it for a ground. But the power hog is the starter. So it needs priority as far as current demand goes. The engine and transmission are mounted in rubber mounts. So putting the large cable on the frame doesn't do much good for the starter.