Towing trigonometry
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 306
Likes: 107
Partly correct. The rear axle on a 350 is rated for around 900# more. The reason for the GVWR derate is licensing. A 11.9K GVWR plus a 15K trailer puts you over 26,000#, possible CDL. The same combo with a 10K GVWR, 25K, under CDL. Is there a different in the 250, and 350? Yes, but as long as you don't go over axle or tire ratings one is good to go. Honestly, if I had a trailer that my 250 couldn't tow, I would jump to a dually.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,049
Likes: 1,546
From: Media PA
I'm appealing to the towing collective here. I'm looking for guidance on the upper limit that I can tow so I can start to narrow down my search for a full-time living, 5th-wheel toy-hauler. All these numbers and acronyms have my head swimming.
I'm ordering a '24 F250 CCSB SRW with 4.30 gears. Here are the numbers I combed off the interwebs for that configuration:
GVWR - 10000
GCWR - 26000
5th wheel towing - 18,800
Payload - 3923
I don't want to tow to the max capability of the truck, but I do need to set the upper limit for my search because the options are overwhelming.
All that to ask: What's the maximum fully loaded weight and pin weight that I should be looking at to not overwhelm my truck?
Appreciate the help!
JJ
I'm ordering a '24 F250 CCSB SRW with 4.30 gears. Here are the numbers I combed off the interwebs for that configuration:
GVWR - 10000
GCWR - 26000
5th wheel towing - 18,800
Payload - 3923
I don't want to tow to the max capability of the truck, but I do need to set the upper limit for my search because the options are overwhelming.
All that to ask: What's the maximum fully loaded weight and pin weight that I should be looking at to not overwhelm my truck?
Appreciate the help!
JJ
I would seriously recommend upgrading your order to an F-350 (maybe a dually or even a F-450 if I really wanted a nice big comfy TH to live in) for the addition GVWR, GAWRs and payload. You are planning on full timing in a fifth wheel toyhauler and to me that spells HEAVY, so more truck just makes more sense.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 19,676
Likes: 12,797
From: Wyoming
Hey Tom, thanks for pointing out it's a toy hauler. I missed that.
Toy haulers are notorious for heavy pin weights, especially when the garage is empty. While my toy hauler is a bumper pull, with the Polaris Ranger 900XP (~1500 lbs) in the garage, my tongue weight is around 940 lbs. That's with no water in the three tanks (120g fresh, 55 black, 55 gray). Without the Ranger in the garage my tongue weight shoots up to around 1450 lbs.
Toy haulers are notorious for heavy pin weights, especially when the garage is empty. While my toy hauler is a bumper pull, with the Polaris Ranger 900XP (~1500 lbs) in the garage, my tongue weight is around 940 lbs. That's with no water in the three tanks (120g fresh, 55 black, 55 gray). Without the Ranger in the garage my tongue weight shoots up to around 1450 lbs.
Moderator
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 12,049
Likes: 1,546
From: Media PA
Hey Tom, thanks for pointing out it's a toy hauler. I missed that.
Toy haulers are notorious for heavy pin weights, especially when the garage is empty. While my toy hauler is a bumper pull, with the Polaris Ranger 900XP (~1500 lbs) in the garage, my tongue weight is around 940 lbs. That's with no water in the three tanks (120g fresh, 55 black, 55 gray). Without the Ranger in the garage my tongue weight shoots up to around 1450 lbs.
Toy haulers are notorious for heavy pin weights, especially when the garage is empty. While my toy hauler is a bumper pull, with the Polaris Ranger 900XP (~1500 lbs) in the garage, my tongue weight is around 940 lbs. That's with no water in the three tanks (120g fresh, 55 black, 55 gray). Without the Ranger in the garage my tongue weight shoots up to around 1450 lbs.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,126
Likes: 7,925
From: Texas
I'm appealing to the towing collective here. I'm looking for guidance on the upper limit that I can tow so I can start to narrow down my search for a full-time living, 5th-wheel toy-hauler. All these numbers and acronyms have my head swimming.
I'm ordering a '24 F250 CCSB SRW with 4.30 gears. Here are the numbers I combed off the interwebs for that configuration:
GVWR - 10000
GCWR - 26000
5th wheel towing - 18,800
Payload - 3923
I don't want to tow to the max capability of the truck, but I do need to set the upper limit for my search because the options are overwhelming.
All that to ask: What's the maximum fully loaded weight and pin weight that I should be looking at to not overwhelm my truck?
Appreciate the help!
JJ
I'm ordering a '24 F250 CCSB SRW with 4.30 gears. Here are the numbers I combed off the interwebs for that configuration:
GVWR - 10000
GCWR - 26000
5th wheel towing - 18,800
Payload - 3923
I don't want to tow to the max capability of the truck, but I do need to set the upper limit for my search because the options are overwhelming.
All that to ask: What's the maximum fully loaded weight and pin weight that I should be looking at to not overwhelm my truck?
Appreciate the help!
JJ
For the purpose you are looking at, cancel the truck order, go find the trailer you want. Then go back and order an appropriate truck to pull said trailer.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 235
Likes: 84
From: West TN
Folks will argue the weight numbers until the post is locked every time, so I'm no help there, but I agree with thinking seriously about upsizing to a dually if you're planning to tow a full-time 5er often, and if you were to ask the 2017+ section, you would likely be told not to order the 5th wheel until you have the truck, because you may not get the order anyway...
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Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 483
From: Southern OH
How long is the toy hauler you are looking to get? If it's over 35' I highly reccomend getting a dually, not because of the weight but because of the wind resistance, a dually will be far more stable when towing in a cross wind.
Logistics Pro
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 483
From: Southern OH
This may be correct about the 10k derate business, but going off of axle and tire ratings is not correct. My truck has an 11.9k GVWR. I cannot just look at the axles and tires and go with that. I will exceed GVWR, which is there for a reason. There is no derate on my truck. Telling the op to look at axles and tires is wrong. There would be no point in a one ton if that were the case, correct?
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 306
Likes: 107
Looking at the axle and tire ratings is 100% correct becuse that is exactly what the DOT looks at when you go through a weigh station, the factroy GVWR is ignored. I can say that with absolute certainty, been through them time and time again. However you wouldn't be going through a weigh station anyway since RVs are exempt from that.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,126
Likes: 7,925
From: Texas
What DOT looks at for compliance, and what the proper method is to determine a safe load are not the same thing. I gave the proper method. You will never see a manual direct you to go over GVWR or GCWR, regardless of the axles. Do you think Ford would warranty anything if they could prove you were over GVWR or GCWR?
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 306
Likes: 107
Tuned
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 306
Likes: 107
So you see how it’s full of gotcha’s? You’ll never have max payload and max tow capacity simultaneously and stay under GCWR. I think they even have a derate for altitude somewhere. Anyway, you exceed the GVWR or GCWR and break something, good luck. Ford probably knows the GCWR from fuel flow, AFR, pitch, acceleration. I am pretty sure they have all the sensors they would need to calculate it. It’s a new era where the trucks can tattle. The high end models calculate payload. For all I know, they might all have that capability, but you have to pay for the readout.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,126
Likes: 7,925
From: Texas
Same frame, transmission, brakes, wheels, tires, axle capacity, etc. What is different in the vehicles other than power output of the engine?
What makes the PSD safer than the gasser?
or is this GCWR just advertiseing about who can pee the furthest?