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What causes this hard cranking condition when engine is hot? (Click YouTube link below) It cranks smoothly when cold. This is a relatively new condition. Last Winter she wouldn’t start. A mechanic tracked it down to a bad rectifier (I think it was) in the MSD distributor. Since then it’s idled faster than it used-to, and this hard hot-start symptom has been present. I’ve just barely started making short drives with the truck, post restoration project.
Also, twice today the starter wouldn’t disengage/stop when the engine started and I released the key, even with key in “Off”
position. Had to disconnect the battery to get it to quit. Once things cooled off for about 15 minutes, I still had the hard crank, but the starter disengaged.
If you do replace the solenoid because it is sticking only top of the line ones.
Cheap ones have been known to fail and keep the start going.
Dave ----
Well since you have a MSD distributor, NO telling what it might be. But hard to start issues I'd check both battery terminals. Get the ones you make, NOT the all in one molded ones. Check and clean ALL grounds and add an extra one.
You might have heat soak/fuel boil, is the fuel pump to carb line metal or rubber? Hard to start might be time for a new carb accelerator pump. Is the choke working? Replaced any inline fuel filters lately? Any dry rotted fuel lines?
If after a start sequence and once it starts and you release the key and it stays trying to start. Common issue is stuck starter solenoid (on inner fenderwell). Quick kill trick, pull the 90* elbow elec connector off the starter solenoid. One or the other should kill it, I can't remember. Replace starter solenoid before you reconnect them. DO NOT mix up the two 90* elbow connections either.
Always carry a solenoid spare in the tool box and a spare ignition module (brain box). And store the brain box in a gooey side UP position, that stuff melts and makes for a sticky mess in the summer. No spare solenoid, wack it with a screw driver, bet that does not work though.
Put an AMP CLAMP on it and record the draw (starter), cold vs hot, if substantially higher the bushings are swelling when hot and hanging the armature. Replace the defective starter before you are left stranded..
Thanks guys. Just a note, it’s a ”Cranking” problem when warm, not really a “Starting” problem. She eventually fires and runs just fine. It’s just that wonky, inconsistent crank until it fires. It’s like the starter is hanging/sticking.
All primary power cables are essentially new, but I’ll recheck connections.
I’ll pick up a better solenoid too. I think I cooked it.
Well since you have a MSD distributor, NO telling what it might be. But hard to start issues I'd check both battery terminals. Get the ones you make, NOT the all in one molded ones. Check and clean ALL grounds and add an extra one.
You might have heat soak/fuel boil, is the fuel pump to carb line metal or rubber? Hard to start might be time for a new carb accelerator pump. Is the choke working? Replaced any inline fuel filters lately? Any dry rotted fuel lines?
If after a start sequence and once it starts and you release the key and it stays trying to start. Common issue is stuck starter solenoid (on inner fenderwell). Quick kill trick, pull the 90* elbow elec connector off the starter solenoid. One or the other should kill it, I can't remember. Replace starter solenoid before you reconnect them. DO NOT mix up the two 90* elbow connections either.
Always carry a solenoid spare in the tool box and a spare ignition module (brain box). And store the brain box in a gooey side UP position, that stuff melts and makes for a sticky mess in the summer. No spare solenoid, wack it with a screw driver, bet that does not work though.
I hear them battery clamps are the worst and only good to get you somewhere to get a proper cable / clamp.
Because they "clamp" the cable it can raise the resistance at that point and it is open for acid to do the nasty and raise the resistance.
Yes I know you dont have that issue with acid with that battery.
Originally Posted by aquanaut20
Put an AMP CLAMP on it and record the draw (starter), cold vs hot, if substantially higher the bushings are swelling when hot and hanging the armature. Replace the defective starter before you are left stranded..
Not everyone has a amp clamp but most have a voltage meter and that is what you need to run the test I posted up top in the link.
Also the clamp will only tell you the full system draw, how do you know it is not a cable that has high resistance?
The test above will tell you just what part is a problem as you test each cable and starter before you spend any money.
As for the "primary power cables are essentially new," you can not see inside them. They could be full of corrosion, the green stuff, and raise the resistance and this goes up with heat.
So them that say "they look good" dont have a clue and need to test each cable for resistance.
If found high after you replace it cut it open and tell us what you see.
Dave ----
I hear them battery clamps are the worst and only good to get you somewhere to get a proper cable / clamp.
Because they "clamp" the cable it can raise the resistance at that point and it is open for acid to do the nasty and raise the resistance.
I hear you on that one, I just wanted to cover that using the basic ones from most auto parts store, that are all in one molded ones are junk IMO. I had chased a elec issue for quite awhile. Come to find out it was those cheap ol molded cables having an internal failure, that I could not SEE or test for.
To help with the common corrosion on the battery post/terminal connection area, once all connected I coat/cover the connection with dielectric grease. Silicone grease, even regular automotive grease works to stop corrosion. WAY better than those red/green fiber disks.
To the Op, have you pulled the starter and took it in for a bench test at the parts store?
Your timing is too far advanced, you can hear it kicking the starter . faster idle is confirmation this is the problem.
You either need a higher octane fuel or you need to back it off a little. get it starting good then check it all in at 2500 with a dial back.. chances are you need to work on your curve to get it in the low to mid 30's. .
I hear you on that one, I just wanted to cover that using the basic ones from most auto parts store, that are all in one molded ones are junk IMO. I had chased a elec issue for quite awhile. Come to find out it was those cheap ol molded cables having an internal failure, that I could not SEE or test for.
To help with the common corrosion on the battery post/terminal connection area, once all connected I coat/cover the connection with dielectric grease. Silicone grease, even regular automotive grease works to stop corrosion. WAY better than those red/green fiber disks.
To the Op, have you pulled the starter and took it in for a bench test at the parts store?
The only issue with the in store bench test is it is not under load turning the engine and it is not hot when this happens.
That is why the link test is the best as it is in real world testing.
Originally Posted by 440 sixpack
Your timing is too far advanced, you can hear it kicking the starter . faster idle is confirmation this is the problem.
You either need a higher octane fuel or you need to back it off a little. get it starting good then check it all in at 2500 with a dial back.. chances are you need to work on your curve to get it in the low to mid 30's. .
Originally Posted by mark a.
Have you tried loosening the distributor and turning it back a little ? Do you know what the initial timing is set at ?
A real easy way to see if timing is to far advance is to remove the power to the coil or ground the coil wire and see if it cranks with out kick back.
Dave ----
There's no doubt it's kicking back you can hear it. there could be other problems but the starter simply doesn't have as much power as the engine so it's going to lose. .
I read about this too. The “kicking starter” problem only exists when engine is warm though, so I wasn’t sure that was my problem. It makes sense that it could-be, since my mechanic did tinker with the distributor.
Gents, just a quick note of thanks for those who’ve weighed-in. I installed a better solenoid today, and dialed-back the timing a bit. Both problems now seem to be gone. On to the next gremlin/s, as I shake-down this rebuild.
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