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Wayne (52_merc), thanks a bunch for uploading the pics. The links below will take you to shots of the data plate on the firewall, the S/N stamping on the RH frame rail, and an overall view of the firewall.
Incidentally, I'm seeing red overspray on the yellow so I'm sure the firewall was a later paint mod.
Interesting. I'm going to say the T on the firewall patent plate is a mis-stamp. Mis-stampings, while somewhat rare given the millions of trucks built, are not uncommon, and seem to be more common on '48 trucks than later years. It does appear to be all original together from those pics. It still doesn't 'splain the F5 emblems on an F3 truck, though.
One more question for you to research. Is there anything stamped into the cowl/firewall in the area marked here? Most trucks have a production code hand stamped into the firewall here. A clear photo of the area would be nice. Sometimes the stampings can be hart to read or accurately decipher, and since we've been looking at them for years, we can read things others don't see.
[QUOTE=52 Merc;20778434]Interesting. I'm going to say the T on the firewall patent plate is a mis-stamp. Mis-stampings, while somewhat rare given the millions of trucks built, are not uncommon, and seem to be more common on '48 trucks than later years. It does appear to be all original together from those pics. It still doesn't 'splain the F5 emblems on an F3 truck, though.
"One more question for you to research. Is there anything stamped into the cowl/firewall in the area marked here? Most trucks have a production code hand stamped into the firewall here. A clear photo of the area would be nice. Sometimes the stampings can be hart to read or accurately decipher, and since we've been looking at them for years, we can read things others don't see."
A bit of background here might be fun to share. This is not my first restoration nor my first rebuild. I started out in aviation as a pilot and while I love it still, I learned that my true passion was in the airframe structure itself. Same with old trucks. I eventually started a niche business wherein I repaired and returned to service airplanes that were out of production. Frequently, that involved fabricating structural members that were no longer produced or devising repairs to said members for which the manufacturer never included a repair scheme in the structural repair manual. I those cases I hired aeronautical engineers to write approved data for which I could proceed with a repair. As you might imagine, my emphasis was on getting parts or parts approved right now. I never enjoyed "the hunt."
Having said all of that, you all have gotten me excited about this phase of "the hunt."
Wayne, in the morning I'll go back out there and see what I can learn from the cowl. This, in my view, is 'truck archeology.' Fun stuff.
Wayne, I found the cowl numbers just where you said they'd be. Posting 3 pics to my album. Like you said, "If you don't know where to look, you'd never know it's there," or words to that effect.
I also discovered that the farmer in ND painted the firewall with the same floor mop that he used on the other truck.
I'll be looking forward to learn what the numbers look like to you.
Let us know if this is what you see "SP K 3 2337" the 10674 looks to be different font and size?
I looks like factory stamps but 10674 is double-struck....a bit unusual
A string that long is normal for SP plant and it's verified on the serial number. What's missing is a character for the day of production.
I think I see another 2 hiding under the SP, which would make the string SP 2K 3 2337 10674
Saint Paul assembly on Oct 2, 1948 color 3 Black and the rest is in-plant coding for vehicle down the line
Keep in mind these were hand stamped and over-stamping is pretty common.
Moe, the way it looks to me is "PK3 2337 10674." I really can't say for certain but since you point it out, there does seem to be a slight difference in font.
Additionally, I wasn't seeing the "SP" part but again, since you bring up that possibility I can see that.
Typically in the production code, we see the color code, the assembly plant and a build date code, along with some other numbers which were used by the factory for tracking purposes, not necessarily having anything to do with the truck directly. In '48 they were just learning what they were doing (apparently) and sometimes it's not stamped to the same standard as later years. We don't always see the stamping on '48's.
There's definitely a SP there as that's the plant code we know is correct. If it's followed by 2K and 3 like mtflat suggests above with his decode, that's what it is. Is the P a double stamp and not a 2, with the K3 stamped out of order being the date? Is that a 10 stamped above the string? So many questions. Check around the truck to see if there's evidence of black paint under the yellow.
Interestingly, 10 is the color code for Chrome Yellow, the color of the truck currently, and originally I wondered if the 10 later in the string, in a slightly different font, could have been a misplaced color code. I'm totally speculating with no basis in actuality there, fwiw. But now I see what appears to be a 10 above the whole thing. This one's a head scratcher, for sure.
Typically in the production code, we see the color code, the assembly plant and a build date code, along with some other numbers which were used by the factory for tracking purposes, not necessarily having anything to do with the truck directly. In '48 they were just learning what they were doing (apparently) and sometimes it's not stamped to the same standard as later years. We don't always see the stamping on '48's.
There's definitely a SP there as that's the plant code we know is correct. If it's followed by 2K and 3 like mtflat suggests above with his decode, that's what it is. Is the P a double stamp and not a 2, with the K3 stamped out of order being the date? Is that a 10 stamped above the string? So many questions. Check around the truck to see if there's evidence of black paint under the yellow.
Interestingly, 10 is the color code for Chrome Yellow, the color of the truck currently, and originally I wondered if the 10 later in the string, in a slightly different font, could have been a misplaced color code. I'm totally speculating with no basis in actuality there, fwiw. But now I see what appears to be a 10 above the whole thing. This one's a head scratcher, for sure.
I was looking at the stamp on top. My records show 16 as being Chrome Yellow and thought 10 was Sunland Beige in '50.
FADECBLC, Can you look under the dash and/or behind the fuel tank to see the color may have originally been?
I was looking at the stamp on top. My records show 16 as being Chrome Yellow and thought 10 was Sunland Beige in '50.
FADECBLC, Can you look under the dash and/or behind the fuel tank to see the color may have originally been?
Moe, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the truck is and was chrome yellow. I've rebuilt several airplanes over the past 50 years and have learned enough about "paint forensics" to be satisfied with the colors of both trucks.
Other than the red firewall, there are no traces of any other color than yellow. Incidentally, I've stripped both cabs and fender sets so there are no hidden color traces other than yellow on this truck and meadow green on the other one.
(One of the first things I did after getting the trucks home to Tennessee was to remove the gas tanks as they were rank. Better to buy new tanks when the time comes.)
If I had to guess, I would say that some teenager on that farm painted the firewall red for whatever reason. The evidence is so overwhelming that the truck was never any color but yellow as to be unequivocal.
Additionally, as far as my family has been able to ascertain, both trucks were purchased many decades ago, if not new, by the same farm family in ND.
My uncle bought these trucks at auction on that farm sometime around '04 or '05. He eventually passed away in 2011 and then my aunt bequeathed them to me two years ago.
I'm just relieved that, apparently, the cowl stampings only relate to trim, color, or what have you rather than vehicle ID.
Thanks again for your input, Moe. Keep the ideas coming.
Bruce, I appreciate the info you've shared here. When I saw the stamping above the build code I saw it as 1G, but it makes more sense that it is 16.
SP K3 2337 10674 - I'm still puzzled by K which would be an October build. The others around it in the data log are E or F codes. For now I'll let that simmer.
In 48 the plants were just getting started on identification of trucks based on frame numbers. 47 and earlier IDs were still based on engine numbers.
All plants show some variation. I can't think of any others that have the paint code stamped like this, but I'm convinced. The truck has the look of original yellow.
Wayne, I'm changing my paint codes in the data to show yellow as 16 for 48 and 49.
Moe, I already have it noted that way for 50 based on earlier discussion.
Why change it now? The data log is made up of personal observations, owner comments, documentation from Ford, etc, etc. It is as accurate as possible until some proof shows up to change it. Ford has changed color designations over the 48-52 model series several times. Starting with numbers, most if not all were switched to letters by 52. Red has been 2, M and N according to various sources, plus stamping errors are common so I don't make quick adjustments in the data log until something definite comes along. This is one of those times.
Bruce, I appreciate the info you've shared here. When I saw the stamping above the build code I saw it as 1G, but it makes more sense that it is 16.
SP K3 2337 10674 - I'm still puzzled by K which would be an October build. The others around it in the data log are E or F codes. For now I'll let that simmer.
In 48 the plants were just getting started on identification of trucks based on frame numbers. 47 and earlier IDs were still based on engine numbers.
All plants show some variation. I can't think of any others that have the paint code stamped like this, but I'm convinced. The truck has the look of original yellow.
Wayne, I'm changing my paint codes in the data to show yellow as 16 for 48 and 49.
Moe, I already have it noted that way for 50 based on earlier discussion.
Why change it now? The data log is made up of personal observations, owner comments, documentation from Ford, etc, etc. It is as accurate as possible until some proof shows up to change it. Ford has changed color designations over the 48-52 model series several times. Starting with numbers, most if not all were switched to letters by 52. Red has been 2, M and N according to various sources, plus stamping errors are common so I don't make quick adjustments in the data log until something definite comes along. This is one of those times.
Wayne, Thanks for the information!
mtflat, I hear ya on that. We also have to remember that the stamp were internal (Plant information), so if someone stamped wrong it wasn't the end of the world!
