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I'm starting to work on cleaning up my frame. It's very rust. I'm of course going to take a wire brush and angle grinder to it and clean it up. I've read for days about the different types of coatings.
I'm thinking Rust Encapsulator is a pretty good cost/quality product. I'm unsure though of if it's best to paint it right over the bare rust/metal after cleanup, or should I coat it down with some Ospho first to actually stop the rust that's there. I don't if the RE has to have rust to stick. It concerns me a little leaving the rust there. Seems like it would be easier to come back.
Read and follow the directions of whatever product you want to use 100%. As long as it's a quality product they've done the testing to know what works best. If you have questions about a procedure, call the tech line.
When i worked in the body shop one of the primers we used regularly said there needed to be a layer of flash rust for it to bond correctly. When i asked the rep about it, he explained that rust will separate the grain of the steel into a layer of jagged edges and crevices at a microscopic level, but still be solidly attached to the base metal, which leaves a surface that is excellent for coating adhesion. The primer had acid in it to neutralize the rust once it was applied.
Some things I've learned over the years: Degrease it all before you start rust removal, wire wheels and grinders can embed oil and grease into the metal which can cause adhesion problems with paint. Then degrease it again when you're done. Then before you paint it go over it all with a hair dryer or heat gun to get it as dry as possible before painting it. If there's no moisture trapped under the paint it can't rust anymore. If i can dilute whatever product I'm using, i'll go as thin as they say i can and I'll go around and do a coat to all the frame joints and around brackets/rivets/bolts/etc. I really slather it on with a foam brush and make sure it flows into all the crack and crevices. If there's an acid step i do that extra on the joints/brackets/etc as well. Then I do the recommended number of coats over everything.
The PO had sprayed some used motor oil on frame while the bed was off to stop the rust. It's been a while back so it's not like dripping off or anything. I was thinking scrubbing it with some Dawn before I start wire wheeling. Thoughts?
Sounds like you're in for a lot of manual labor. May want to use engine degreaser or a purple cleaner. Dawn can work well enough (it's all I used to wash my hands) but I feel it doesn't get embedded dried oils on metal that well. Yellow oven cleaner will strip nearly anything off. It's nasty stuff tho. You'll have to experiment to see what seems to work the best.
I'd use Super Clean or Purple Power(I think that's what it's called?). They're more aggressive than Dawn or Simple Green. If you have access to a pressure washer, that'd be the quickest and easiest way to clean it, but scrubbing by hand with a wire scrub brush works, it's just labor intensive.
Dawn "Professional" will clean it off effortlessly. Put it in a weed sprayer and go crazy. Works awesome on driveway grease stains too. I wire wheeled the frame of my 79 and then purchased KBS' frame coater kit. It comes with metal etch solution and then the topcoat which I used black satin and it was still very glossy. Looked amazing. Do not let the etch solution drip onto your garage floor if you are concerned about it as it will etch the concrete as well. You can see a little bit of my frame in the photos along with the shock towers.
On the other hand I often use wd40 or the like when wire wheeling. Eliminates the cloud of dust.
You shouldn't use petroleum lubricants when wire wheeling . You can embed them in the surface of the metal and cause issues with paint adhesion. You literally fold the metal over on itself at a microscopic level trapping little pockets of oil. There's a name for the process, but I forget what it's called. It used to be a method used by steel mills to put a rust resistant surface on the stock they were selling.
The extreme approach is to first remove every bolt and rivet essentially disassembling the frame. This is the only way that you can reach all of the rust. Several FTE members have documented their doing this. They sand blasted all the parts, painted them with epoxy and then replaced the rivets with Grade 8 bolts and locknuts as I recall.
I can tell you rust encapsulator will only stick to rust not to bare metal even with 2 coats.
Ospho will only treat rust not bare metal.
It sounds like the body will stall be on the frame so this adds to how to go about this and the work it will take.
On my frame off rebuild of my 81 F100 a driver I de-greased the frame using over cleaner and de-greaser till I was happy the frame was grease free.
My frame was not that rusty and just used a hand wire bush to hit the heavy areas. I blew off any dust then sprayed Ospho on the whole frame and let it do it's thing for a few days. Not a good picture but the white is were it did not have to treat rust and dried.
I hosed off the frame and let dry a few days before I parted it using TSC brand gloss black with hardner and a spray gun.
I also used the same paint on the suspension parts.
Again this is just a driver but wanted it to look nice.
Been on the road 3 years now and I have de-greased the under side of the truck a few times once with a power washer because of a oil leak that I have since fixed and it has held up pretty good.
Encapsulator I have used on another project on the inside of the fenders and on the outside of 1 of the tanks for my truck.
I felt the thinkness of the encapsulator worked best for where it was being used.
Dave ----
ps spraying Ospho I think would creep into nooks & cranies to treat rust.
Ospho is just phosphoric acid, like alot of rust converters. It does treat bare steel, it's called pickling, and it's used to protect steel in corrosive environments. The reaction also roughens up the surface, helping paint adhesion. The surface needs to be wet with solution constantly and heat really helps the process. Larger parts/areas can be done by wrapping them in phos. acid soaked paper towel, then plastic wrap to stop it from drying. Dipping smaller parts in heated phos. acid will put a protective layer on relatively quickly. Don't heat it indoors because of the fumes. Depending on what your using for a top coat product after the phos.acid treatment you might not have to do anything or you may need to rinse, or wash, and scrub it or possibly neutralize the acid with something like a baking soda/water solution.
