Yesterday, 11-11-23 ... I pulled the Edelbrock off to put the Holley on, I removed theFPR too (but might yet reinstall it set to 6.5 psi), emptied them and set them out to dry in the yard / sun. I had made myself a shallower 1/2" recessed air cleaner base, yet it clears the carbs, but it does rest on the fuel line of the Edelbrock. I guess I could redo the fuel line though.

I really wanted to try the Holley again is "the why", no other particular issues. I played with some center hung bowls, but ended up putting them away for now. I'm gonna need a new choke cable soon (ordered). It was dark when I finished, I did some other stuff too. It took a few moments to start, I'll fiddle with it later when I can warm it up good. My "DIM (Did It Myself) big bowl" air cleaner clears the firewall really well now. I really like this, and with the 14x3 filter too. After a real test of mileage, I'll see where I'm at. I'm gonna try #65 main jets in the Holley I think ... in place of the #64s in it now... #66 is stock for a 1850-2 anyway (but a 1973 Holley book tells me the 1850 (no siffix) used #65s). I'll leave the 6.5" PV alone. The Holley APD is the better, more fuel resistant green one. I might yet use the center hung bowls too. I have brass floats in them, but I have a third with the nitrophyl float which has a shorter arm and I'd have to use it with a secondary metering plate.

Today, we took it out for supper up the road, and it worked well as expected but I do need to adjust the cruise control centering or sensitivity, and those idle screws some more. Was thinking on it yesterday, old truck is my only carbureted vehicle now. I know Holleys, I've never done a lot with an Edelbrock carb but what is in this thread, and my parts supply is mostly Holley too.

The Edelbrock is a good, leak free, almost zero hassle carburetor and I have a new sealed kit for it too ... storage bound I think?

 

I will try to Google it.
I am wondering. Is the standard fuelpump on the 302 delivering enough fuel on heavy loads ?
I guess it does, but can't help thinking about it.
Also I'm not sure if it backfires or if the sound is coming from the intake . Hard to hear when you are in a tunnel.
I will also mention that the climb is maybe 1 km long.
Anyway thanks for giving me new ideas about what can be causing this.
Learning new stuff is never wasted .
Hope your Holly will run properly when it's finetuned.
Mc.

 

Thanks for well wishes.

Today I did re-jet but only to #65 main jets as I had them, checked the new 6.5 PV with a Mity Vac and it's about perfect, found out my idle screws weren't "right" ... so after hooking up a vacuum gauge under hood, I warmed it up well, and attacked the idle screws. I started with the screws at 1.5 turns out from seated, and if I turned both all in, it died as it should. At 1.5 turns out it was smooth at 750-800 rpm, but by more tries I found my best setting to be 1 turn out from seated. When I stopped, I had it about 750 rpm (3/4 ways from 600 to 800) and steady 17.5" / 18" vacuum in neutral. Also, in gear I saw the hot idle down closer to 600, and 13" vacuum then.

Holley sets their carbs up at 70 degrees at sea level, and they tell one to reduce jetting 1 step per 2,000 feet above sea level. They put # 66s in the 1850-2 carbs, but the very first 1850s used # 65s. My current carb is a 1850-2 main body with the bowls and jet plates from a 1850. I live at 1,698 feet, a few miles south is a river crossing at 870 feet. The #65s may not be perfect, but they are good enough for my uses.

Certainly better than the # 62s I once used long ago, at sea level yet ... I was running jetting for like 6,000 or 8,000 feet at sea level as we vacationed / camped up along the Atlantic sea shore from SC up through DelMarVa & on through De..and west across Md. to WV. then turning south towards home (1989), and I burnt some valves doing it to (small wonder there). I soon re-jetted up to the # 64s ... then a head swap with refreshed heads (1990 as I recall), then put the gifted Edelbrock on a few years later (2012). These "original" # 65s should put the old Holley back to "real good". I think it'll be fine ... but I'll do a mileage check later this week, when not all that idle time is on it.

11-14-2023: Well, just because we stopped there at the BP / McDs to get some McRibs today ... and BP was down to $2.899 with my rewards $0.15/gal discount, so I filled it. Took only 8.54 gallons, been a hair over 90 miles traveled, and several sessions of long warm up idling and then I did dump a Edelbrock carb and fuel lines of gas too. I don't count it as a good test, but it still figures higher @ 10.53 mpg even with the losses, than that 10.27 mpg.

11-16-2023: I went ahead and put my FPR back on after fabbing a bracket. Stock, the fuel pump pumps 7.0 psi. Holley says 7.0 psi is max, but that they prefer 6.5 psi. I don't think it is an issue, I ran this carb for 25 years or more without a FPR on this truck, and I wouldn't have bought it for the Holley (bought it to use with the Edelbrock years ago, it was flooding at idle / low speed) ... but maybe it does smooth the flow as Holley says ... anyway ... I set it to 6.5 psi.



I made my bracket to mount on my extra long carburetor base bolts above the hold down nuts. The 5/16" studs go through the barb base, a plate, and a inch of solid aluminum spacer, then threaded over half inch into the intake manifold. All 4 carb base hold down nuts are locked in place by the nuts above.them.





When I am replacing the plug wires, I'll clean and wax those rocker covers too. The pieces of hoses on the plug wires were put over rodent tooth damage some many years ago.

 

Carburetor threads can end with air cleaner posts can't they ... and "Yeah, I know I posted some of this before" ... but that was in a more "general topic" thread.

My current air cleaner evolved after I spotted this big aluminum roaster with lid at an indoor antique / flea market dealer down in Floyd, Va.back in 2021 (as I recall). My truck was going through it's 3rd redo since leaving Norfolk, Va. and it was a most major redo. I knew I wanted something different for it's air cleaner, something to that shed water running off an open hood too, and this cast aluminum roaster shouted at me. Once back home, it sat on a shelf for a long while as I was deciding on that first cut, etc. I almost painted it too, but the idea of a fine sanding and polish won out. It's got tapered sides, was 5" deep, is now 3-1/4" deep. 17" diameter on the big open end, it fit over a 14" filter nicely. The rounded top used a second wing nut at first. There is a near 1-1/2" open space all the way around the base for air to be pulled upwards into the interior through the filter element.

Bottom of roaster. Two holes, one dead center, the offset one will move it a little away from the firewall. It cleared dead center, but it was really too close to the firewall pinch weld with the "then" flat (non recessid) base. I plugged the now un-needed offset hole with a countersunk screw & locknut since recessing my filter base plate 1/2".


As used on the truck, first step has stud protruding up through the center, a piece of rubber inner tube, a 3" aluminum disc "washer", and then a regular wing nut.
Inside is over 3" deep. The flat is near about 13' diameter, maybe a little more? The 14" element is 12" ID, The outer edge fits just as the sides curve up from the bottom flat. When tightened, the outer edge of the filter top slightly compresses, the inner edge will meet the inner lid. I think the shiny surface is from something cooked in it?


The Roaster just setting in place after cuts, but you can see what I did. The lid was trimmed on my bandsaw to near about 14" diameter too and it's dome shape blends well into the sides, and it hides the first wing nut and washer disc under it. Black **** has a steel insert now, it is used as the last / very top most wingnut. It's still black with some grey JB Weld showing where it was made of two pieces, but I included the steel 1/4-20 threaded T-nut insert like used in wood projects. Might yet paint the **** solid black.



I'm pleased with just a sanded finish ... it doesn't look bad at all. As an aside, it might even reduce evaporation of fuel in float bowls as any vapor would now have to fall outside of the air cleaner to rise up and dissipate, I think. I know a small portion can evaporate into a space above the liquid, like the fumes in a half full gas tank, but once they reach a certain density above the liquid, it stops. I'll report if so. That top lid's Bakelite handle makes a superb top nut, spins loose fast ... and impossible to lose down a carburetor throat.

Update 04-20-2024: I think it did reduce or near eliminate fuel evaporating from fuel bowls.
Air Filter update ... easier faster starts. - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums (ford-trucks.com)

 

Enjoyed this read. Ever noticed any ethanol buildup in your bowls from your use?

 

No residue, it gets only BP regular, same as my other vehicles and mower. I have a few BP stations locally to choose from, and I have favorites where I travel. With the $0.15 a gallon loyalty discount using the BP card, it's often even cheaper to buy than the "bargain gas station" across the street.

I've heard guys talk about residue, seen writings, but have only ever seen residue in a dry carb that was left when wet. Guy gave me a chrome look Holley, I was gonna rebuild it, looked good on outside, he said it never run right for him. He brought it to the store, wanted to return it after it sat on a shelf for over a year. It was cruddy, but he put it away wet. Manager said couldn't take it back, so he just left it in the bed of my truck. The only issue I've seen from using ethanol is the original accelerator pump or other rubber deteriorating over time, but now with new ethanol resistant replacements, no more of that.

Ethanol is just alcohol, but it can attract water that is corrosive. My seldom used tiller, generator, snow blower, etc get run until dry with a fuel valve to off, then the tanks, bowls, and lines are drained too.

As to the '77 with that big upside down cook pot like air cleaner above, I don't have long starts either. Carburetor acts like it keeps fuel in it now. A little choke, 2 or three pumps, turn key to start, it does pretty quick.

 

Im scared to run ethanol in my old stuff, even my 77 that is now getting driven alot. Our non ethanol is 90 octane and i probably could use the 93 with ethanol

 

What does it do on regular that you don't like? Have you ever tried just regular? What is the percentage ethanol as indicated on the pumps .... if they label it there?

My '77 has had ethanol in it since sometime in the '90s at least with no issues other that a carb rebuild or two, using good kits, 2+2 gum cutter, some air. Knock on wood, but my tank has never been opened. I run it. Even leaving a carb or tank full of just the same old gasoline for long times has down sides, like a gummy oily residue as volitiles evaporate if not sealed.

You know that regular and premium grades have the exact same energy teaspoon to teaspoon, but the premium has a higher octane because it resist combustion under higher pressures and temps due to additives added to the base gasoline. Alcohol itself actually has less energy, and resist ignition more than gasoline, why Indy cars run such insane sounding compression ratios, because it takes longer to get the fire going. Back in the '50s as automakers raised compression ratios chasing high power by squeezing the mix tighter before ignition, regular gas would ping because it was "exploding" in the combustion chamber of the new engines, the need was there for a slower burn so they added additives to slow the burn under conditions created by design. Cars that needed high test or premium grades also get more ignition timing advance, to start the combustion earlier so a burn occured when the piston was at a point it made best use of the burn, before it was down in the bore.

Running high test high octane in an engine designed to run regular is a waste of gasoline as the less advance timing and lower compression ratios slow the ignition and in cases can lead to heating as the piston is way down the bore where more cylinder wall sees the flame under less mechanical advantage as the crankshaft throw is slowing verticaly and will swing through on the exhaust stroke.

I know guys that rode in our Gold Wing group would often be seen filling up with high octane but every Gold Wing was designed to run 87. Those same guys were always displeased with fuel mileage, and power with Mama on the back of the often trike dragging a cargo trailer.

Premium or high test may sound better, then regular, but it is a design aspects of the engine that creates greater power using the high octanes.

 

My 460 is almost 9.9:1 with dynamic compression around 8.8. She wont run on 87 without a neutered timing curve. Could probably add a degree or two with 93. I get nervous about the evaporation/deposits from sitting for a month or two.

Gas here is 10-15% ethanol. I buy the 90 octane ethanol free for my gas cans to run in all my small engines that sit alot, same with my jeep. Ive run the same in this truck since i first fired last year because i knew it would be sitting alot on and off just being yard driven until recently. .

 

I remember when ethanol was first introduced and it was hard on rubber fuel system components.
I would have to think if the rubber stuff has been upgraded there shouldn't be a problem.
I've run blended fuels in everything I have owned and never had a problem.
My 410 having factory pistons tells me it has 10.5:1 compression.
Initial timing is 12° BTDC and total initial and mechanical about 28° BTDC @ 2400 RPM.
When I first started driving it I ran low-lead 101 oct @ $10 gallon but that was when I had a job.
For the last few years I run 87 oct regular that is 10% ethanol with zero ping.
Maybe living at 6000 ft contributes to the no ping.

 

I understand the need for the higher octane, didn't know what your engine was.

As to evaporation, mine was often near dry too after sitting when I had the open element hot rod air filter, took some turning over a pumping to start, but it really doesn't seem to do it with this /i\ cook pot filter housing. My real reason for repurposing the pot was to stop the filter element getting wet when opening the hood in rain or if snow was on the hood & cowl, etc.