Ford uses a type of non-wicking wire starting with Electronic ignitions and then FI wiring. I don't know the name of it. I remember a tune up wizard type problem solver guy telling me don't ever ever wash under the hood of a fi GM product back in the day. It is true the original Ford wiring insulation would shrink back from connectors but moisture never followed it. Just observations.

 

I think I found the hard starting issue ... old fuel filter was maybe restricting fuel flow. Changed it out, it seems better so I'm gonna stay with the Edelbrock a little while longer, at least until warm weather. On the upside, I do have a really clean Holley 1850 now, but I'll put it away for awhile, see how the Edelbrock 1405 fares now. I'll put the Holley together with the Holley kit parts, then seal it all in a plastic bag. No power valves, no bowl joints, I'm just out what the kit cost me and that was not so bad as my offer was accepted.. Won't help MPGs, but I really should get a solid base line with the Edelbrock, and a set of plugs ... and even plug wires wouldn't hurt none.

Besides, I enjoy doing it ...

 

A fuel filter shouldn't effect starting unless it's sat for a long time. there should be enough fuel in the float bowl to start and run for a bit even with no fuel coming in.

 

I thought so too. It would "fire", then die quickly, even using a lot of choke. I was reading in the set up documents, it listed dirty fuel filter as one possible cause of hard starting in the trouble chart ... I thought "Huh?". I don't "dog" it so I got to thinking maybe I was just not noticing a lean condition or low fuel level? I changed it yesterday, it was pretty well clogged up judging by my observations, then today it's in the 50s. I'll watch it, might refresh it too later. Edelbrocks do use small floats on shorter arms than Holleys, and the float bowls don't appear to have near the "fuel storage" capacity of Holleys. Just big enough to give floats room to float. I do like jets in the bottom, I like the smaller / larger bores and just weighted secondary air valve of the Edelbrock too.

 

It looks as though this the place to get some Holley answers. I have a 4160 that I converted to a 4150, 465 cfm 1848-1. I bought it NOS and ran it for about 2 years. I'm now rebuilding it and adding a Proform primary metering block with adjustable idle and p. valve restrictions. I added the new metering block to get some more power out of this carb. It ran fine on my other engine, but this one has a larger cam, ported head, etc. Since this carb was first made in the late 50's, I don't believe it has the p. valve ball protection in the base plate. Does anyone have a photo showing the hole in the baseplate that I should be concerned with?

 

Under WOT, I doubt you'll get more power out of it but you may get it to respond better. I'll be going to the shop in a bit, I have my 4160 600 cfm 1850 apart, I went and got a picture for you. That acid wash really changed the look of the float bowls, so I meticulously taped them and main body and I painted them with silver metalic wheel paint ... yeah, really. It was in the '90s that Holley started doing it. Was no "kit" for it when I did it, just an article in HRM.

Do not drill the hole all the way through the carb base. You're just creating a pocket.



Front is up.
If you buy the kit, it'll tell you sizes the kit uses.Ball point pen springs were pretty common, the ball was in my left over box.

Hope it helps .........

 

Thanks for posting that. It will be very helpful. I also noticed something that I was wondering about earlier. My car came with only six machine screws that hold the base to the body. Of course I saw there were eight holes countersunk for the screws, but I just thought that maybe those were there for a different model. It never occurred to me, because this card was supposed to be NOS, new old stock, That Two of the screws may have been taken out or just plain missing. That means all this time I've been running this card without too of the machine screws that hold the base to the body. Wow. That is just asking for a vacuum leak.

Also thanks for all the photos where you pointed out the whole that I need to be concerned with and how to go about drilling it. I will be very surprised if I do not see an improvement in wide open throttle performance, since the power valve orifices are now larger than what they were before. I know a lot of people say that to get major power you need larger Venturi as will be found on the 600 CFM models. But I don't know if that's exactly true I have a lot of experience with Quadra jet carburetors, and those, as you know, flow around 200 cfm on the primary side. What's amazing about those carburetors is that GM that same size small primary Quadra jet on everything from a 231 V6 to a 500 in.³ Cadillac engine. So don't think it's about the size of the diameter of the primary bore. But anyway, glad to be back to Holley. And thanks again for the help. Kevin.

 

Somebody could have robbed the two screws to replace two they lost during their rebuild of a 780 back in 1967. I measured those sizes today ....so they are right. I'm pleased that it helped. Those Q-jets and the Edelbrock AVS style carbs had smaller primaries than most Holleys, but bigger secondaries, total cfm will support some bigger engines ... but while all 4 bores might open wide at WOT .... they have a secondary "air valve" that is either weighted or is spring controlled and if the engine can't use the maximum cfm of the carb, the air valve doesn't open fully thus limiting secondaries to what the engine can use.

 

Excellent info. Copy and paste material. It's my understanding that this carb was designed for small displacement v8's. It worked well on my 300 I6. Now, with my new engine and larger cam, with the mods that I've made, it should supply quite a bit low end pep.
I see the oe squirters were .025. I'm currently up to .032 on those. Also, I was surprised by the 8.5 power valve. I thought for sure it would be 6.5, but I can't argue with Holley. I'll test and tune later. That's part of the fun. Also, I added a secondary metering block to get changeable jets, and those are now at .062. I thought that having them a bit larger than the primaries should be right.
I went ahead and ordered Holley's kit for adding a power valve protection ball and spring. It comes with drill bit and stop, two springs, two *****, and a small washer, like a lock washer with a split, that is tapped in the hole after spring and ball are installed. The 'washer' seals spring and ball in, and still allows vacuum to pass. Holley quality.
I'm also installing QuickFuel's adjustable secondary diaphragm so I won't have to fool with springs.
Over the years, having dealt with old Autolite 4100's alot, and Quadrajets too, I've found that often the 'trick' to getting a good carb is buying it new. That way, you know 100% that no orifices have been drilled, no parts have been swapped during a commercial rebuild.
My carb was NOS on ebay, and when I took it apart, the choke and secondary diaphragm machine screws had been in there for ages, and needed heat to get them out. Today I have to drive to my nut and bolts warehouse and replace them, and get two new ones for the baseplate.
I also believe I will convert it back to the original hot air choke.

Thanks again for the help. You went above and beyond.

 

Yeah, they include a retainer where my way you have to watch for it if you rebuild it. I was editing, playing as drinking coffee, and I accidently deleted part of the post ... but if you desire the list of specs, parts, etc, it came direct from Holley's web site. Carburetor Technical Support - Holley or their list numbers at Holley Carburetor Numerical Listing which is an easy down load as well as are their other documents. Just scroll down to "Carburetor Technical Resources" on the first link. I built myself quite a file downloading most of the PDFs. Years ago, we would grab them at our local speed shops / auto parts stores / etc when they updated their counter catalogs, before computers, internet days. At the Advance Auto Parts store I was working part time at, after retiring ... the lady manager had kept all the old counter top catalogs, info books, in their holders even though we had newest updated stuff on the computers. Was more than once we found it helpful.

I still have my 1973 Holley book of stuff. It doesn't show a 1848-1, but I think they brought that out in a revision after the book was printed, it is listed in the PDF I linked to above though, first number actually. The earliest list1848 in my book is the 1848A as used on the 1958-60 Ford, Edsel, & T-bird 332, 352, and 361 engines. The earliest model 4160 it shows is the 1732A used on 1958 Ford 332 .... but the earliest model 1450 is the 1272A used on the 1957 Ford, Mercury, & T-bird 312 engines, and the very earliest Holley 4 barrel of any model shown in this book is a model 2140-G or SG used on a 1955 I.H.C. 501 truck engine. The model 4000 was another 4bbl carb model, list 1268A was used on the HP 2x4 version 1956 Ford T-bird 312. I found notes in the book from long ago.

EDITED 01-30-2023: Today as I was working on my wires for the radio, I got to looking at my mess in the shop, Holley stuff all over the place, brand new Holley brand kit, all cleaned up. I have a decent condition Edelbrock on the truck. Both carbs are set up to my throttle linkage and etc. I have a brand new Holley rebuild kit for the Holley that I opened ... and I ordered a new Edelbrock kit for the Edelbrock couple days ago. I'm thinking maybe I should go ahead, rebuild the Holley, and swap it on as I intended, & put the still decent Edelbrock in dry storage with the FPR. I can leave the Edelbrock kit sealed, along with the new extra diaphragm coming for the FPR, store them both with the Edelbrock too ... knowing I have a solid running back up then. I even bought a spacer with 3/8" PCV hose barb on it to go under the Holley which has no fitting for PCV. Once finished, it might take me 30 minutes to swap from one to the other if desired or needed. I should try it after doing so far.

It'll be a good test of my paint job too.

 

So this is interesting. I went to drill the hole for the spring and ball, and it was already drilled so I just placed the spring in there, with the ball on top, and pressed in the collar seal.
I was also surprised to find that my new Proform metering block came without a hose attachment for the v. advance line. So, I heated up the old metering block and removed the old hose fitting and inserted it into the supplied hole.
The PF metering block was supposed to come with a couple of different restrictions for the idle and power valve tuning, but they were nowhere to be found. Called Summit and they are sending them, supposedly.
Finished assembly today and can't wait to install and run my new toy.

 

Interesting!
I knew they were said to be putting them in now a days ... don't rekon it just means they supply the hole.

 

The Carb is up and running with a few kinks that need to be worked out. I can say to not buy the Quickfuel nylon needle and seat seals. I thought that nylon would be great and that I wouldn't have to worry about tearing a gasket when I adjust the floats, so I installed the nylon gaskets. Great product except they DON'T seal!!! Wasted money!!
I couldn't get carb to idle under 800 rpm so I backed out a few degrees of timing.
Now my throttle is sticking, but I think it is caused by my double springs binding on the linkage.
Initial reaction: I can tell right away that I dropped cfm. It just doesn't have the guts that my 600cfm has, but it's peppy.

 

I used to do the adjusting with engine running, gas squirting, your trying to keep the screw tight to limit spray, torn gaskets. Now, I'll do a cold bench setting, then after install, after running, I'll shut it off and check the bowl level sight screw, then do it again. Not as hard on the gaskets as you can loosen the screw and turn the nut without trying to stop the squirts.

Was reading in those several Holley books I have, even though there are 8 holes, some carbs did (or do) only come with 6 screws holding base to body. Go figure!

I had a check up today, was sweating it, Nurse Practitioner checked my BP, was 132/82 she said. I asked her "Do you know how to operate that thing?", she give me a funny look, assured me she did ... I laughed, told her I was sweating this visit today, that "I was expecting 140s or 150s over 90 something" ... "but hey, I'll take it". Doctor come in with a student, and he too was surprised as my BP is almost always high the first time, "White Coat Syndrome" since the '80s. It'll be OK if they catch me by surprise or a second or third time. Doc asked if she did it over my shirt. I said "yes", he told me to take my shirt off. He checked it then, I was so happy with the 132/82, then he said "Wow" .... and I thought "Uh oh" ... it was then 125/75.

Come home, eat lunch, started on my Holley, had the small parts bag emptied into a tray, checking for washers, clips, etc. I was comparing base to body gaskets, bumped the tray and for near two hours spent the time looking on my basement floor. I found everything, but of those 8 bowl screw white washers, I could only find 7. Finally, was getting late, I was ready to give up, looked down, there it was 6" from my left foot. Didn't know how easy it is for white to hide on concrete.

 

Kit showed up, I got after it, finished it today. Took my own sweet time doing it though. I also modified a few things, changed that funky bolt in the primary bowl vent hole because it looked like the head of it might get bumped by the float. I cut it short, shaved the head, inserted it from the outside, it's now flush inside, added JB Weld over it on top. I also used two O-rings at each end of the aluminum fuel transfer tube that supplies the rear float. I recalled it being a little sluggish at times with those #63 main jets, so I put #64 main jets in. #65 or #66 were Holley OEM according to specs. New other parts, gaskets.

I took an old Mr GASKET 15/16" carb spacer and added a 3/8" hose bib for PCV vacuum, modified a flat heat shield I have to go between them. I also put my DIY power valve backfire protection back in. Paint looks some better, was a lot of scrubbing the surfaces though to clean the staining off, even after that diluted acid bath. I might get a set of those 5/16" hex head bowl bolts .... I like the white plastic bolt gaskets. I used Loctite on the two choke plate screws. My throttle shafts were really nice. I did not obsess over blackness in the bores. I sorted my jets, I have 4 new never used, and 32 used ones from many carbs ... plus the two in the carb. I like the fast idle ramp on the Holley choke better than the stepped one on the Edelbrock. With the Holley ramp, just pull the choke out and it opens the throttle smoothly. With the Edelbrock, it is best if one steps on the gas to pull the choke. I found a whole new unopened kit too in my boxes too.

I came close to using dual side inlet center hung bowls, but in the end ....I put them back in storage.

I'll adjust and tighten the inlet hose bib fitting when I swap it back on, adjust the trans kick down, and check the float levels wet. I'm thinking might keep the FPR as it's set for 5.5 psi anyway, I have a new diaphragm for it ... but if it ever does rupture, I already know that the Holley carb can handle the fuel pump's 7 psi output.



Oh yeah, forgot, found new nuts and lock screws for the inlet needle seats ... in my "stuff".